Forum on the Book of Revelation

Can the book of Revelation be understood? Find out from a forum of Bible prophecy experts on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Last aired on May 25, 2014.

Video References

Lion of Judah Ministries

Spirit of Grace Ministries

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Transcript

Dr. Reagan: Do you consider the book of Revelation to be a Chinese puzzle that no one can understand? Is it a book that is frightening to you? Well, don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. The book of Revelation is one of the most misunderstood books in the Bible. People often say it is just too difficult to understand. Well, they are wrong. It is not difficult to understand; it is difficult to believe. If you will believe it, you will understand it. For the opinions of a panel of Bible prophecy experts, stay tuned.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. As you can see once again this week I have a studio full of people, all of whom are experts in Bible prophecy. Returning with us from last week’s program are first Gary Fisher here who is the founder and director of Lion of Judah Ministries in Franklin, Tennessee. Welcome, Gary.

Gary Fisher: Great to be back Dave, thanks.

Dr. Reagan: Always good to have you. And next to him is my former colleague Dennis Pollock who was with me for 11 years here in this ministry before he felt the call of God to establish his own ministry called, Spirit of Grace which focuses on the continent of Africa. Glad to have you Dennis.

Dennis Pollock: Well, thanks Dave, it’s worthwhile to just hear you call me an expert.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Dr. Reagan: Ok. And Nathan this is my colleague Nathan Jones of course you are familiar with him he is the co-host of this program, and Nathan we are glad to have you with us today.

Nathan Jones: Appreciate it.

Dr. Reagan: Fellows I want to jump right into this thing about the book of Revelation. Let’s talk about one of the popular theories today and that is what is called Preterism. Kind of a strange name and certainly one of the strangest interpretations of the book of Revelation that anybody has ever come up with, but it is growing in popularity. And this is the idea that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD and therefore was fulfilled in whole, or in part, some argue in whole in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. That it is a book of prophecies about 70 AD and not about the end times. What about it?

Nathan Jones: Well, that would mean that Jesus would have had to come back in 70 AD. And I don’t know about you but no historian recorded the return of Jesus in 70 AD.

Dr. Reagan: They argue that He came back spiritually.

Nathan Jones: True, but that would then mean that we are living in the Millennial Kingdom. And I don’t know about you but when I read the Bible about the Millennial Kingdom it talks about the curse being partially lifted. That Jesus is ruling from Jerusalem. That Jerusalem is the capital city of the world and Israel is the main country. And that the curse is lifted, it is a time of peace and harmony. And with 38 wars going on right now I don’t think this is the Millennial Kingdom.

Dr. Reagan: Well, and also when you talk about Him coming back spiritually you deny what the angels said to His disciples on the Mount of Olives when He ascended into heaven, “He will return as He ascended.” That is bodily, that is visibly.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: What about it.

Gary Fisher: This whole argument is based on two issues, one if you are bent on the interpretation allegorically of the Bible then you can get away with saying Jesus is already returned and all the plagues and all that stuff has already occurred, but if you insist on the literal interpretation of the Bible then you cannot get away with that.

Dr. Reagan: In fact if you don’t have literal interpretation there is no way really to ever determine whether a prophecy has been fulfilled.

Gary Fisher: Well, not only that but the whole Bible becomes almost meaningless with the allegorical interpretation of the Bible, it can mean anything. How do we know there was a real Jesus?

Dr. Reagan: Dennis, was the book of Revelation written before 70 AD?

Dennis Pollock: No, it was written after so that should settle it right there, but beyond that have you ever been to an event that was really built up as something great and it turned out to just fizzle.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, yes.

Dennis Pollock: I went to one meeting that was supposed to be the latest, greatest revival meetings going on. And after it was over I was really disappointed and I thought, “Lord is the best you can do?” And when you read about the coming of Christ at the end of Revelation, riding the white horse, coming as this mighty warrior to take control of the earth. And then you find out it is this little wimpy spiritual coming that really didn’t mean much of anything. It is like, is that really what is being described in Revelation? And the answer obviously no. The Tribulation is leading up to something, it’s not all by itself in Revelation it is leading up to Christ coming back to rule and reign.

Dr. Reagan: And what hope is there about the future if you think it was all fulfilled in 70 AD? Come on.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, it makes the whole thing meaningless.

Dr. Reagan: You know Preterist remind of that statement by Paul where he said, “I want you to avoid two fellas,” and he named them because he said, “they teach that the resurrection has already occurred.” Well these guys are teaching that the Second Coming has already occurred.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: I mean what hope is there? It is really a very sad kind of interpretation.

Gary Fisher: I am with Nathan’s point, if we are living now in the Millennium we are in a big mess because if this is God’s best, we have some of the highest crime rates in the world and all the other stuff that is going with that. And this is the Millennium?

Nathan Jones: And Satan is supposed to be reined in, he is supposed to be put into a pit during the Millennial Kingdom. Obviously he is working right now.

Gary Fisher: Well he’s not in a pit in Tennessee. He’s roaming about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, let’s look at another question, what do you consider to be some of the keys to interpreting and understanding the book of Revelation? Name one.

Gary Fisher: I just simply say believe it as it is written.

Dr. Reagan: Ok.

Gary Fisher: Just believe it as it is written. You don’t have to understand it to believe it, just believe it as it is written.

Dr. Reagan: And a good example of that I think is in chapter 7 where it talks about 144,000 Jews being sealed in the end times to do a certain work for God. And one time I went through every commentary I could find, 85% of them said that was talking about the Church.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: I thought, “They are named by tribes,” I mean what would God have to do to convince you that He is talking about 144,000 Jews. Do you have to put it up in the sky with neon lights flashing on and off? I mean come on?

Nathan Jones: Ok, Dr. Reagan you’ve got to say your favorite statement about Biblical interpretation, it is the guiding light by which this ministry interprets the Bible, and its.

Dr. Reagan: Well, all of the Bible, not just Bible prophecy, if the plain sense makes sense don’t look for any other sense or you’ll end up with nonsense.

Nathan Jones: Amen.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah. A couple other things one is to respect the book you’ve got to respect it and there are a lot of Christians that don’t it’s like a second class book in terms of the Bible. Yeah give me some Romans there is some real meat. Let me read the Gospels, you can really get a lot. But Revelation that is for those flakes and nuts that don’t have much else to do. But the reality is the same Holy Spirit that inspired Paul to write about justification by faith, the same Holy Spirit that inspired John to sit down and write, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” Also gave John these revelations, these insights, these visions that make up the book of Revelation. And it is valuable, it is good for us, it’s healthy. So you have to respect it. I know one pastor who told me that he went through a series on Daniel for example he went through the first six chapters and then stopped because he didn’t want to deal with prophecy. And a lot of people are that way about Revelation, they’ll read Matthew thru Jude and when they get done with Jude, bam right back to Matthew, forget about Revelation they don’t see it as very valuable.

Dr. Reagan: You got any other keys to interpreting this book? Understanding it?

Nathan Jones: Sure, I think people get to Revelation and say they well it is apocalyptical literature therefore it is just filled with symbols, it doesn’t make any sense. But I find throughout Revelation wherever there is a symbol the Bible then goes ahead and explains it. Or sometimes you have to go into the Old Testament to get a definition. Like for instance when Jesus is talking about the seven stars and the seven lampstands just a few verses later He says in chapter 1 that the lampstand are the seven churches and the stars are the angels that protect those churches. So you got to let the Bible speak for itself, you have to let the Bible interpret for itself and you have to make allowances for when the Bible is poetic then accept it is poetic literature. When it is apocalyptic accept it as apocalyptic literature. You can’t just say that the Bible is all narrative, or all history, you got to understand the literary devices that God uses.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, well folks last week we discussed with these fellows some questions concerning the Rapture and if you didn’t get that program you can go to our website at lamblion.com and you can watch it online. I want to come back for a moment to a questions concerning the Rapture that relates to Revelation. And that is: Where is the Rapture in the book of Revelation?

Gary Fisher: Revelation 3:10 I believe is the strongest one, “Because thou has kept the word of my perseverance I will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour that is about to come upon the whole world to try them who dwell on the earth.”

Dr. Reagan: And that was Jesus speaking to the church of Philadelphia, wasn’t it?

Gary Fisher: Revelation 3:10.

Dennis Pollock: It was Philadelphia. In another place He talks about coming as a thief and we are to watch and keep our garments so that we don’t walk naked. And at the end He says, “I’m coming quickly,” clearly that is a charge to the Church to be ready at any time, I could come. So there are hints to it but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen in the chronological order of the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: Sometimes people point to chapter 4 and they say that when John was taken up to Heaven, raptured up to Heaven that this was a type of the Rapture of the Church. Others say they don’t really believe that. What do you all think about that?

Nathan Jones: I think the biggest example is that there is an absence of the lack of Church, I mean when you look from chapter 5-19 it’s all about earth, it’s all about Israel, it’s all about Gentiles being destroyed, it’s about the Antichrist.

Dr. Reagan: And the Church isn’t mentioned one time.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, you get to chapter 19 and all of sudden the Church is in Heaven.

Dr. Reagan: The focus of the first 3 chapters is on the Church.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: And suddenly no mention of the Church, it mentions Saints, well is that the Church?

Dennis Pollock: Well clearly there are believers throughout the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: There you go.

Dennis Pollock: But that doesn’t mean they’re are the original batch. The original batch has been snatched, you’ve got a new batch.

Part 2

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum about the book of Revelation. Fellas, let me ask you this question is the book of Revelation in chronological order?

Gary Fisher: I think it is. Revelation 1:19, “Write therefore the things which you have seen, the things which are, and the things which shall take place after these things.” Things which are, things which shall take place after these things.

Dr. Reagan: I think I would say that in general, overall it is in chronological order, but I think that in the book of Revelation there are both flashbacks, and flash forwards.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dennis Pollock: My answer would be yes and no. In general yes, but there are parenthesis where you have God inserting a whole concept. You have the parenthesis in Revelation 13 where He talks about the beast and how he gets his start and who his worker is. Well the Antichrist shows up a long time before Revelation 13 but God just takes one vision. And really what we seem to be getting in Revelation are a series of visions that John had and he is writing them down, most of them are in order, but there are some where God is just saying, here’s the beast and you have some other examples as well of this parenthesis where God just inserts a particular thought.

Dr. Reagan: Well there is almost a rhythm where the Lord will talk about these judgments that are coming upon the earth and they build and they build and the terror becomes increasing and then all of sudden it just cuts off and there is a parenthesis where He encourages the reader to look forward to the end, we are going to win in the end, the saints are going to come out victorious and then He will pick up the narrative again and start talking about another tribulation. Sometimes there is a look backwards for example in Revelation 13 he looks back to the birth of Jesus and starts talking about that.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, you’ve got the woman and the child and the dragon and all of those things.

Dr. Reagan: We are used to flashbacks in modern fiction writing, what we are not used to are flash forwards because God knows what is going to happen in the future He can flash forward and talk about it. And that is where people often don’t understand what is going on in the book of Revelation.

Nathan Jones: Revelation can be terrifying, obviously we are talking about the earth population being decimated, the economy being decimated, the ecology being decimated, it’s a terrifying thing. It reminds me when I was a kid and I’d see horror movies and I hated horror movies because I would be up all night for weeks, and I would run out to get popcorn periodically, you needed to take a break, and Revelation does that. You need to take a break from the drama, you need to sit down and Jesus comes in and says, oh wait, don’t worry about this is how it’s going to end, I’m going to win, don’t worry, stick it out it’s not going to be so bad. And we need those throughout Revelation.

Dr. Reagan: Now one of the areas in the book of Revelation where it has been the most speculation has to do with chapter 7 where it talks about 144,000 people.

Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Who are those 144,000 are they Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Nathan Jones: I don’t know it says here in Revelation 7:4, “And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 sealed from every tribe of the Israelites.”

Dr. Reagan: Duh.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Dennis Pollock: And of course probably almost all Jews, well not all but most Jews would not be able to tell you what tribe they are from, but God knows He has excellent record keeping in heaven. So it would be no problem at all for Him to choose from different tribes and raise up these individuals.

Dr. Reagan: I just don’t understand why people would interpret this to mean anything other than what it says.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: It’s just 144,000 Jews that He is going to give special mission to.

Dennis Pollock: One thing you have to remember is that God is a communicator, I mean He knows how to communicate and it would be foolish for him to write a book out so mystical, so bizarre, so highly symbolic that nobody could get anything out of it. It would be like you inviting me to come on this program and I spoke fluent Russian the entire time. I might be doing very well but it wouldn’t do one thing for your audience, and it wouldn’t do anything for us if God made this book so difficult that we couldn’t get anything out of it.

Gary Fisher: There is another dynamic being mentioned here and those 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel can bring to mind something that God has operated in the past. What happens in the enterprise of preaching the Word of God when the Holy Spirit falls entirely on a Jewish person? Where would we be without the Apostle Paul? Or some of the other Jewish prophets. When the Holy Spirit gets involved in the Jewish person then the enterprise of reaching people goes into a hyper gear. And God has used for 2,000 years the ministry of the Apostle Paul, just one Jewish man full of the Holy Spirit. There is going to 144,000 of these guys.

Dr. Reagan: Well that reminds me of a conversation I had one time with Zola Levitt who has gone on to be with the Lord now but he was the leading Messianic Jew here in the United States. And I called him and I said, “Do you believe the 144,000 are going to be real Jews?” And he said, “Well of course they are going to be real Jews.” He said, “Why do you think God gave us the personality we have?” Well I wasn’t about to touch that, so I played dumb. I said, “What do you mean.” He said, “Haven’t you ever met a Jew?” And I said, “Well, yeah.” He said, “Haven’t you ever noticed that we are real pushy?” I said, “Well, as a matter of fact, yes.” He said, “We are the world’s greatest salesman, he said, “can you imagine God unleashing 144,000 spirit filled Jews on the world?” He said, “We are going to convert more people in 7 years then the Church has in 2,000 years.” He said, “We’re going to push them up in the corner and hold them by the neck until they say, Jesus.” I said, “Well I hope you’re right brother.” Well Revelation 11 speaks of 2 special witnesses of God who are going to be sort of the conscious of the world for the first 3 ½ years of the Tribulation, doesn’t say who they are. Who do you think they are going to be?

Nathan Jones: Well there are a few candidates obviously. Most people say Elijah because Elijah was the forerunner of Christ, all though I think Jesus pretty much cleared up that Elijah the forerunner really was John the Baptist. It talks about possibly Moses that he might have been raptured, but we read in Joel that he did die, so he is iffy. Enoch was raptured from the earth so we have 2 guys in the Old Testament Elijah and Enoch who were both raptured. One represents Israel, Elijah, and one Enoch he was a Gentile, before there were even Jews so he could represent that. Another theory is that it is just 2 people who are alive at that time period who are gifted like the 144,000 and have a special ministry. So we don’t know for sure but whoever they are their power, their abilities, it’s like Old Testament prophets all over. They have the ability to shut up the rain, they can call down fire. I mean they can do everything that the false prophet can do and more so and for 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation they shake the world up so when they are killed by the Antichrist the whole world rejoices over their death.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, it is like a Christmas in the middle of the Tribulation, people exchange gifts they are so happy over the killing of these two guys who have been the conscious of the world during this horrible time.

Gary Fisher: Well, I think one of them is easily argued that it is Elijah, in the book of Malachi 4:5, “Behold, I am going to send to you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.”

Dr. Reagan: Well, the Jews believe that too, you know when they hold the Passover meal they always have an extra chair for Elijah the prophet because they know he is going to come back in the end times.

Dennis Pollock: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, let me ask you this question another area of great mystery is the number 666 which people are going to have on their hand or their forehead in order to buy or sell. Why 666? What is the symbolism of that?

Dennis Pollock: Well the one clue that is given is John describes it as the number of a man. The fact that you have 6 repeated 3 times, 3 is normally the number of God, Father-Son-Holy Spirit. Paul said that the Antichrist will show himself in the Temple of God, that he is God. So basically what you have is a man acting as God, Satan inhabiting him. Satan has always wanted really 2 things, one is power, and the other is worship. And in the Antichrist he will have it, he will have power for a very brief time over the whole world. And he will have worship and he will force that worship on all apart from those who put their faith in Christ will give him that worship.

Dr. Reagan: So the Antichrist will be a type of the Messiah.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: The false prophet will be a type of the Holy Spirit.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: And then you’ve got Satan operating who is the Devil.

Dennis Pollock: A counterfeit Trinity.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, so you’ve got a satanic trinity operating and 6 is the number of man since that is the day that man was created on so 666 the ultimate.

Part 3

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum on the book of Revelation. Fellas, is there anything in the Book of Revelation that you do not understand?

Dennis Pollock: Well, actually I am the ultimate expert on Revelation, send all your… no, of course there are lots of stuff we don’t understand. To me one of the simple things that I would love to know what it really means to reign with Christ.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, boy.

Dennis Pollock: A lot of times when people talk about our eternity their idea is you go to Heaven and you sing 24-7 non-stop forever. And I have to be honest Dave that sounds a little boring to me. I mean, I love worship, I enjoy worship praising the Lord, but 24-7 really? But the Bible doesn’t say we’ll sing forever, Revelation makes it clear we will reign forever. But just what does that mean? Who will we reign over?

Dr. Reagan: Yes, if you’re going to reign you’ve got to reign over somebody.

Dennis Pollock: You’ve got to reign over someone. Will there be other worlds that will involved? There are so many questions.

Dr. Reagan: Gary do you understand it all?

Gary Fisher: No, absolutely not. And I take great comfort in that because the Bible says that we are looking through a glass darkly.

Dr. Reagan: Amen.

Gary Fisher: I have license from the Lord not to have to understand it and I don’t have to understand everything in the Bible to believe it.

Dr. Reagan: That’s right.

Gary Fisher: But one of the things that fascinates me in the book of Revelation is in chapter 22 where it says the tree of life is placed there in Jerusalem. We’re in the Millennium, we’re at the end of the Millennium and the Tree of Life.

Dr. Reagan: No, that is in the eternal state.

Gary Fisher: Been placed there at the end of the Millennium and it says that the leaves on the trees are for the healing of the nations. Wait a minute I thought the healing of the nations has already taken place.

Dr. Reagan: And it speaks of nations outside the New Jerusalem on the New Eternal Earth.

Gary Fisher: And it talks about dogs outside and all that kind of stuff. I am fascinated by that and I can’t explain it.

Dr. Reagan: That is my number 1 question. You know I look through a mirror darkly and I have questions and number 1 on the list is who are these nations who appear to be outside the New Jerusalem on the New Earth? I don’t know who they are, but if we are going to reign over somebody we need to reign over somebody and one thing that is interesting is that at the end of the Millennium we are never told what happens to all those who accept Jesus Christ during the Millennium and whether they receive glorified bodies or what happens to them, we don’t know, maybe they are put on the earth. I don’t know, but that is one of the questions I’ve got.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Dr. Reagan: Dennis you’ve already said you understand it all. What about you Nathan?

Nathan Jones: Wow, you put me in there, no obviously I don’t understand it all. I don’t think it’s meant to be understood because when we don’t understand we keep on going in, we keep reading and we keep studying.

Dr. Reagan: Well that’s right, dig in deeper, dig in more.

Nathan Jones: Like for instance the 6 trumpet judgments, these demonic locusts that come out in the world and they described as heads of lions, and mouths of fire, and smoke and sulfur. And I’m like say what? You know I just don’t understand. Are those people we are taking about, or are they demons? And why do they look like animals? I mean there are all sorts of imagery in that the Bible gives us but not always a definition.

Dr. Reagan: Well one thing that I would point our viewers to is Revelation 1:3 which says, “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy and heed the things which are written in it for the time is near.” That verse jumped off the page at me many years ago and I discovered this is the only book of the Bible that promises you right up front you are going to get a blessing if you read it and heed it. And what I began to do is every time I would read the book I would pray right up front, “Lord help me to understand it better than I did before.” And I would come to understand it better. But I’m still reading it, still things I don’t completely understand. But I get more and more understanding the longer I read, the longer I study, the more I dig because I pray for that understanding based on that verse.

Gary Fisher: I absolutely concur. I was fascinated by that verse years ago when I first started studying Revelation and it occurred to me one day and I heard this so many times blessed is he who reads. And that’s not what the Bible says, it says, “Blessed is he who reads and heeds the prophecy of this book.” So what does that mean to heed the prophecy of that book?

Dr. Reagan: Let me ask you this. When you began to study the book of Revelation as a neophyte just beginning to really get into, it what was the most amazing thing that you discovered in it? What surprised you the most?

Gary Fisher: For me the Jewishness that is involved in it, all the quotes from the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures.

Dr. Reagan: Well it has more quotations from the Old Testament than any other book.

Gary Fisher: Yes, and then if you take the Jewishness out of Revelation you wouldn’t have much Revelation left. There is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah that is written by a Jewish prophet named John. You’ve got chapter 7 with the 144,000 witnesses. You’ve got the Lion of the Tribe of Judah going to come and rule and reign over the whole earth. Wow.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, you know that actually applies to the whole New Testament because Jewish people were told if they read the New Testament they will sin and they are told to never read the New Testament. And yet when they do read it the thing that amazes them the most it is so Jewish from beginning to end, the Gospels everything.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: How about you Dennis anything that surprised you?

Dennis Pollock: Well there have been a couple of surprises down through the years. One of them that I think very few Christians even today really get is just how evangelical the book of Revelation is. A lot of people see it as mystical, esoteric, bizarre, written for mystical, esoteric, bizarre people, and of not very practical use. And certainly not much related to the idea of receiving Christ. But you find Jesus all over the book. For example the Lamb of God that term you find it four times referring to Jesus outside of Revelation. You find it 28 times in the book of Revelation. You can hardly turn a page of what you are reading about the Lamb of God. You find John starting out at the very beginning saying, “To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood.” Well that is very evangelical language. You find an angel going out preaching the everlasting gospel. So it’s not like some separate book away from the rest of the New Testament that doesn’t emphasize Jesus, doesn’t emphasize the need to be born again. It fits perfectly it’s just a prophetic book, so yeah its different, but the theme is still the same it is Christ and its ultimately His reign and rule over the earth.

Dr. Reagan: Nathan what about you? Anything surprising?

Nathan Jones: Well it wasn’t in it, but what’s not in it. And what’s not in it is much definition, and much description about the eternal state.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Nathan Jones: I’m just shocked how little we are told. I mean this life is so little and eternity is so forever.

Dr. Reagan: It basically says two things we are going to serve God forever and we’ll see His face.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Which means we will have intimate fellowship with Him.

Nathan Jones: But more than that, it’s not much.

Dr. Reagan: The thing that was most surprising to me when I started studying the book of Revelation was when I discovered that we’re going to spend eternity on a new earth, I had never heard that in my entire life. That we are going to spend eternity in an ethereal place called Heaven floating around on clouds playing harps. No, we are going to be in new bodies, on a new earth, in a New Jerusalem it’s going to be a tangible existence.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Dr. Reagan: Did you have something you wanted to add?

Gary Fisher: I did. Something that fascinates me still about the book of Revelation is the two pictures of Jesus in Revelation, He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and yet He is also a Lamb.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Gary Fisher: And we know lambs as being gentle and that kind of stuff. But God’s lamb is full of wrath the Bible says, you know hide us from the wrath of the Lamb, all the way through Revelation. And I’m still working on that.

Dr. Reagan: Well, keep working brother.

Part 4

Nathan Jones: Gary, Dennis it’s been great to have you on again guys.

Dennis Pollock: Thank you.

Gary Fisher: Thank you, Nathan.

Nathan Jones: I’ve learned a lot. Can you share what your website address is so people can reach you please?

Gary Fisher: Mine would be lionofjudahministry.org.

Dennis Pollock: And ours is spiritofgrace.org.

Dr. Reagan: Thanks, guys and hey, could we just sum up this program by one sentence. What is the message of the book of Revelation?

Gary Fisher: Jesus is going to judge, and Jesus is going to reign. Hallelujah.

Dr. Reagan: Amen, hallelujah. Well, folks, that’s our program for this week. And I hope it’s been a blessing to you, and I hope you’ll be back with us again next week. Until then, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion Ministries and for Nathan Jones, saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”

End of Program

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