What is the significance of making a pilgrimage to Israel? Find out as Dr. David Reagan interviews Dr. Gary Frazier on the show Christ in Prophecy.
Last aired on March 18, 2007.
Dr. Reagan: What are the most likely prophetic events that will occur in the near future? And what is likely to be their impact on our daily lives? Are we truly living in the end times, and if so, what is the evidence? For the answer to these and other intriguing questions about future history, stay tuned for an interview with Bible prophecy expert, Dr. Gary Frazier.
Dr. Reagan: Well greetings in the name of Jesus our blessed hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My special guest again this week is Dr. Gary Frazier, founder and director of Discovery ministries in Arlington, Texas. Well welcome back Gary.
Dr. Frazier: Well thank you Dave, it’s a privilege and an honor to be with you.
Dr. Reagan: Well I really appreciate you taking time out from your busy schedule to be with us. Now, last week Dr. Frazier discussed with us the significance of Israel, both as a place to visit on a spiritual pilgrimage, and as an important site in the study of end time Bible. This week we’re going to take a look at the book he’s writing that has an intriguing title, It Could Happen Tomorrow. The subtitle, equally fascinating, is Future Events that will Shake the World. Gary, let’s consider the title first, what in the world do you mean by It Could Happen Tomorrow? What does that mean? Where did you get that title?
Dr. Frazier: Well, interestingly enough Dave, one day I was in my living room and I was surfing the channels, you know, on the cable, and of course, we have what? A thousand channels anymore these days. And I happened to pause on the Weather Channel for a moment. Now, one of the things I’ve come to realize is that nobody under about 80 ever looks at the Weather Channel, but for some reason, young people never pay any attention to the weather. But I just happened to pause there because something grabbed my attention, and what I saw was, it was a picture of San Francisco, the bay bridge, beautiful scenery glistening in the sunlight and so forth. And then all of a sudden this ominous red tone began to come across the screen and the announcer said, “The city by the bay, destroyed by magnitude 8.5 earthquake. It could happen tomorrow.” Well then it switched immediately and went to Dallas, and there was reunion arena you know, just glistening in the sun, it’s kind of become the symbol now of Dallas. And it said the city location, talking about Dallas. And then it said, again that red ominous color began to come across the screen, the announcer’s voice turned very gloomy and he said, “Dallas, Texas destroyed by an F5 tornado, and it could happen tomorrow.” And then it went to New York and showed New York, Manhattan being destroyed by a tsunami. And each time the announcer’s voice would say, “It could happen tomorrow.” And I began to think.
Dr. Reagan: And all of those could.
Dr. Frazier: Absolutely. And I began to think about the fact that, you know, maybe there’s somebody up at the Weather Channel who’s a Believer. And so I began to think about how that would be a great title for a book.
Dr. Reagan: And talking about future events because even the secular Weather Channel is now beginning to pick up on the idea that catastrophic events could take place that quickly, that could change the lives of people forever. And I began to think about how Bible prophecy is in a similar way, the same kind of situation. You know, God has told us in the Word about some events that are going to take place in the future and the world is going to be shaken to their foundation by these particular events, and they in fact could happen tomorrow. Alright, now that brings us to the subtitle of your book which is equally intriguing and that is Future Events that will Shake the World. And I noticed that you say, will shake the world. You don’t say may shake the world, how can you be so confident that these events are going to happen?
Dr. Frazier: Well, based on the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, the track record that the Scripture has with regard to accuracy. For example, there are over 109 prophecies in the Old Testament that speak of the First Coming of Jesus. All 109 fulfilled to the minute degree. Now, with regard to that, if you take those prophecies and you say that the Bible is so accurate that all of these were fulfilled, then why would we not think that the 327 in the New Testament would not likewise be fulfilled to the minute degree? And when we study the New Testament, the prophetic word of God, and we think about the things that are prophesied to take place in the future times, we are absolutely certain that those events will in fact take place because prophecy has a 100% track record.
Dr. Reagan: Hey, I like that, that’ll preach. Okay, now, the very first event that you mention in your book is the Rapture. What in the world is that? When is it most likely to take place? And let me tell you why I’m asking this. I went to church for 30 years and never once ever heard the word Rapture. If you’d ask me what it was, I’d say a sensation you feel when your girlfriend kissed you. So, I know there are people watching who don’t know the Rapture from anything.
Dr. Frazier: Absolutely. Well, Dave, first of all, it’s a great question because you know, you can search the pages of scripture and you will never find the word Rapture. And so people say, well, wait a minute, what are you talking about? Because I’ve never heard this word. Well in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, the Bible uses the phrase in verse 17, it says that we will be, speaking of believers, that we will be called up, or that we will be snatched up. In the Greek text, which the New Testament as you know was written in, the word there is the word harpazo, but when the Bible was translated, that is the New Testament, from the Koine Greek into Latin, the word that is in Latin for being called up or snatched up is the word rapti, or rapturo. And when we translated then into English, it became rapture. So what we do is we simply talk about how the Bible says that one day soon the groom, that is, Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, who walked among men, ascended into heaven with the promise to come again, is going to come and claim His bride.
Now, the people out of every denomination who have by faith trusted Christ and they are trusting in Him and Him alone for their salvation, collectively, we make up the bride of Christ. And Jesus said this in John chapter 14. “Let not your hearts be troubled, you believe in God, believe also in me for in my Father’s house there are many mansions if it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you and if I go to prepare a place for you I’ll come again, receive you into myself, that where I am there you may be also.” And what Jesus was talking about was how He was going to go away to the Father’s house and prepare a suitable dwelling place for His bride. And one day when the time was right, he was going to come and claim His bride. And so that event is called the Rapture of the Church. I personally also call it the coming of Christ for the saints.
Dr. Reagan: It’s not the Second Coming.
Dr. Frazier: It is not the Second Coming.
Dr. Reagan: Where he comes to earth. He just appears in the heavens.
Dr. Frazier: He steps out on the clouds of glory, the trumpet sounds, the Bible says the dead in Christ, that is, all those who have passed away who are believers. And they are going to be raised, and then we who are alive are going to be called up to meet him in the clouds.
Dr. Reagan: That means there’s a whole generation that will not die. We’re gonna be changed on the way up.
Dr. Frazier: Absolutely, that’s why Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:51-56, he said we shall not all sleep, that’s a euphemism for death, but we shall all be changed. And what Paul was saying was, there’s going to be a generation of people that will never experience physical death. I happen to believe, barring an accident, that I’m in that group and so are you, because I believe Jesus is coming soon. Now, I started my book with that event because it is so very near. I am persuaded that at any moment that trumpet could sound and Jesus Christ.
Dr. Reagan: what prophecies have to be fulfilled before it can occur?
Dr. Frazier: Well, I’m glad you asked that question because there are none.
Dr. Reagan: Zero. But there are a lot that have to be fulfilled before the Second Coming.
Dr. Frazier: That’s correct, and that’s what confuses people a little bit. They do not realize that the coming of Christ for the saints is what we call an imminent event. In other words, it could happen at any moment, any time, there’s nothing that has to take place before the Rapture can occur. With that being said, there are many prophecies that must take place before the Second Coming of Christ; when Christ physically, and literally, and visibly returns and steps on this earth. There are many, many, many prophecies that have to be fulfilled.
Dr. Reagan: So basically you’re saying that the return of Jesus is going to be in two stages. First, the coming for the Church, then the return to earth. One where He appears in the sky, where He comes for the Saints, the second one when He comes to earth with the Saints. And those are two uniquely separate events. And the timing of the Rapture is a very controversial point. I mean people argue back and forth over it. What would you say convinces you as perhaps the most important argument that this Rapture is going to occur before the Great Tribulation begins?
Dr. Frazier: Well, Dave, I want to just make another outlandish statement if I may and that is this, the average Believer in the pew of the average church who simply reads this Book and understand that it’s the Word of God, and they apply the golden rule of interpretation; which as you well know is, when it makes sense, seek no further sense lest you end up with nonsense. The average person in the pew is not confused. The only people that seemingly are confused today are the pastors and the theologians who have been taught that these things are not literal, you can’t interpret the Bible that way, etc, etc. Now, the fact is, why do I believe that the Rapture is going to take place prior to the Tribulation? Well, first of all there are a number of reasons but let me just say this. When we understand the relationship of the bride and the groom, how in the world does it make sense to any person for a groom to take his bride, beat her up, nearly kill her, and then say, okay, now I’m going to come and marry you? That is foreign to anybody’s idea of a relationship in a marriage.
Second to that, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul wrote these words and in context he’s talking about these incredible events that will surround the coming of Jesus. And he said you have not been appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, the fact is that we are the Bride of Christ and Christ has this incredible passion and love for His church, for His bride, and He is going to take us out of the world before this Great Tribulation comes. When 50% of the world’s population is going to die, two-thirds of the trees will be destroyed, the water, etc. All those cataclysmic events, we’re going to be taken out of the world before then, we’re not a part of the Tribulation.
And further to that, we know that in Joel we’re told why we’re going to be taken out, because number one the purpose of the Tribulation is for God to finish His business with an unbelieving, Christ-rejecting, Jew-hating Gentile world.
The second purpose of the Tribulation we’re told in Joel is because God is going to finish His business with unbelieving Israel, and because of their rejection of Jesus as Messiah. And in neither of those cases does the Church have any purpose, we simply have no reason to be here. And just as Lot and his family were extricated before Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Just as Noah and his family were safe in the ark, we are likewise going to be taken up, taken out of the way, and then God is going to begin to deal with the world.
Dr. Reagan: Well, you’ve certainly got me convinced.
Dr. Frazier: Well, you’re an easy sell.
Dr. Reagan: Okay, well folks, we will be right back with our discussion of prophetic events in the end times.
Dr. Reagan: Well, welcome back to Christ in Prophecy. I’m in the process of interviewing Dr. Gary Frazier, the founder and director of Discovery Ministries in Arlington, Texas. We’ve been talking with him about a new book he’s writing right now entitled It Could Happen Tomorrow and the subtitle of it is equally fascinating, Future Events that will Shake the World.
We’ve been talking about one of those events, the Rapture, but I want to move on to some others. Dr. Frazier you have in your book some very intriguing chapters, one is entitled, “Will there be a War in the Middle East and When?” Another one is, “Who or what is the Antichrist?” Another is “The Birth of a New World Order.” Which one of those do you want to jump on right now?
Dr. Frazier: Well, Dave, I’d love to comment about the coming Islamic invasion of Israel.
Dr. Reagan: Okay.
Dr. Frazier: You know, every day in the Press we’re hearing about how the president of Iran has committed himself to developing nuclear weapons for the sole purpose, he initially said for energy, but then he went on to say he was going to use those to wipe Israel off the face of the map. And the reality of it is that, never before in the history of the world have we had rouge terrorist nations who possessed nuclear weapons until our time.
Now, the Bible is very clear about how there’s going to be an end time conflict, not the Battle of Armageddon, which takes place at the end of the time of the Tribulation period, but rather there will be a war that will take place with a specific group of people who will be involved. It will be a war that we’re told in Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39 will be led by Russia, and it will involve a coalition that is of Arab Muslim states.
Now, the fact is that is that the geopolitical alignment of the world has never been like it is today. We saw in the summer of 2006 in this 34 day conflict with Israel and Lebanon how the nations aligned themselves almost exactly to what had been prophesied in the Scriptures 2,500 years ago. Now, the bottom line is that the people in Israel today, that is, the leadership, they know that if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran acquires a nuclear weapon, in other words if they get enough highly enriched Uranium to have a nuclear bomb, he says he wants to build 25 a year. That the target first will be Israel, second will be the West.
But now can you just imagine a scenario, think about this. Who is the protector of Israel today? America. The single greatest superpower today on the face of the earth. What country will be impacted to the greatest degree when the Rapture of the church takes place? It will be America. In the twinkling of an eye, the protector of Israel becomes diminished in its capability and its desire to be a protector of Israel. And the enemies of Israel then look upon them with their position of vulnerability and say, now is the time to strike.
Now, I believe that the world stage is being set to see this war take place in Israel, that the result of which will be, God says He Himself will intervene, and he will slaughter the enemies of Israel in the mountains of Israel. And I want to tell you that the reason that’s so critical is because following that event, we know that following the Rapture there is going to be the establishment of a new world order. You would never get the Muslim nations to be a part of a coming one world government. But if they had just suffered a humiliating slaughter on the mountains of Israel, I’m going to tell you they are going to be much more willing to come to the table and talk.
We are in a position today unlike any other generation has ever been. Not only are we standing on the threshold the coming of Jesus, but with the nation shaping up, them having this type of weaponry, we can see the literal fulfillment of this Dave.
Dr. Reagan: You know, recently, Israel scheduled a national day of getting ready for a nuclear event and boy, I’ll tell you, that was something. I think they are taking seriously the possibility of this attention. Benjamin Netanyahu has been giving speeches all over the world trying to rally the world against Iran. Because he’s saying “Hey, the parallels with Hitler are just overwhelming here.” And yet it seems like the world just simply either doesn’t care because its Jews involved, or they just don’t take the leader of Iran as seriously. Hitler, before World War II said here’s what I’m going to do, and the world died laughing. They said this man’s a mad man, he can’t do that. He did it. He did exactly what he said he was going to do in Mein Kampf. What is the difference between the president of Iran today and what he says? I mean, he says he’s gonna destroy Israel. And the world’s laughing.
Dr. Frazier: Well, I think that part of the problem is that you know, in the 21st century we cannot imagine someone having a 7th century Arabian mindset, and yet, world domination by the Muslim religion has always been the goal since its inception. The bottom line is that we are so infected with the disease of political correctness that we just simply refuse to accept the fact that there are people on the other side of this globe who not only want to annihilate the Jews, but they want to annihilate the entire West. and they want to enforce their law, they want to take us back to a 7th century Arabian culture. And it’s hard for us to imagine.
Dr. Reagan: I think a lot of it too in the European area, you have governments that are dominated by humanists and they have a humanistic philosophy; they believer in the basic essential goodness of man. They just simply can’t believe in the reality of evil. They can’t believe that there’s really somebody so evil that if they got a hold of this bomb they would use it, even if it meant their own self-destruction.
Dr. Frazier: Well, Dave as you well know, terrorists today have a new modus of operation. They now are taking children, putting them in the car, and then blowing the car up. Using the children to get past security and then just detonating the bomb with the children in the car. Now, let me just ask this question. How can any civilized thinking person get their arms around that kind of mentality, that kind of mindset? And yet, that is the mindset that dominates the Muslim world today.
Dr. Reagan: Now, you made a passing reference to the birth of a new world order. That’s the title of one of the chapters in the book that you’re getting ready to publish. What do you mean by a new world order?
Dr. Frazier: Well, there has to come a time in the days following the Rapture of the Church, the Bible’s very clear when it speaks about how the world is going to come together and it will be ultimately led by a single individual. Now, the fact of the matter is that we started this idea of the new world order a long, long time ago. The United Nations is a product of the concept of a one world government, a new world order. Our former presidents have spoken of a new world order. The reality of it is that you mentioned this so clearly a moment ago, Europe and many in America today still live with this euphoric idea that we can all just come together and have a big group up and sing a stanza of Kum Ba Yah and it’s gonna all be okay. The reality of it is that there’s great pressure to bring everyone together under one political umbrella.
Make no mistake about it, as T. R. Reid wrote in his book The United States of Europe. The European Union of today is the literal fulfillment of the prophecies given to Daniel 2,500 years ago, in Daniel chapter 2 and Daniel chapter 7. Now, are we seeing it in its full form? No, because remember, we are Pre-Rapture, trying to figure out what a Post-Rapture world is going to look like.
Dr. Reagan: Well, folks, in just a moment I’m going to ask Dr. Frazier the 64-dollar-question, where in the world is the United States in end time Bible prophecy? He eluded to it just a moment ago, we’re going to go into in more detail.
Dr. Reagan: Once again my guest this week is Dr. Gary Frazier, founder and director of Discovery Ministries in Arlington, Texas. Gary, before we consider our final question, let’s just take a moment for you, just look right there into that camera, and tell the viewers how they can get in touch with you and your ministry.
Dr. Frazier: Well, Dave, thank you for that opportunity, as you know, Discovery ministries is much more than just an educational, equipping ministry when it comes to travel to Israel. I travel all over America doing Bible prophecy conferences just about every single week, but folks can reach us at our website is discoveryworldwideministries.com, or garyfrazier.com. We look forward to hearing from you.
Dr. Reagan: Okay, Gary, let’s go to the biggie. Where is the United States in Bible prophecy? I mean, hey, we’re the world’s super power, we’re right at the end times, and yet we can’t seem to find ourselves there in Bible prophecy. Are we going to disappear from the scene or what’s going to happen here?
Dr. Frazier: Well, Dave, as you know, Dr. Tim LaHaye and I travel across America along with Dr. Ed Hindson doing a series of prophecy conferences called the Left Behind Prophecy Conference. Without a doubt, every weekend, or whenever we’re doing one of these conferences, there is always someone who poses that question. And the answer to that is really quite simple if you think about it. Number one, America didn’t exist when the Bible was written, obviously. So as a result of that, America is not mentioned specifically in Scripture.
Second to that, America diminishes with the Rapture of the Church, as I said a moment ago. Here we have the greatest single concentration percentage wise of believers in one country in the entire world. There are more dedicated, born-again, in every level, like education, government, military, you name it. It will be absolute chaos.
Dr. Reagan: That’s right.
Dr. Frazier: And so when the Rapture occurs, America, the true super power today, in the twinkling of an eye as Paul says, becomes a third world country. And what do we do? Deal with the military dictators. Well, but what do we do? We turn back to our roots. And where are our roots? Our roots are Europe. So what happens is, is that we have the decline of America, and the continued rise of the European Union which is the revived form of this ancient Roman Empire which God says would come in to play in the last days. And then be dominated by a single world ruler that we call, know from Scripture as being the Antichrist.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I hope your scenario is right. When I was writing my book on the United States in Bible prophecy, I did scenario thinking. I thought of all the different ways that we could become unimportant in the end times, and all of them were very, very, bad. You know, like terrorist attacks. People don’t realize how vulnerable we are to terrorists. All they have to do is float a merchant ship into New York harbor with a suicide crew, detonate an atomic bomb and our nation is in chaos.
Dr. Frazier: Well, as you probably are aware, there have been a number of our friends who have said that in the next year there undoubtedly will be another major terrorist attack in the United States of America.
Dr. Reagan: And just think, the 19 guys with box cutters. We lost 7 trillion dollars on our stock market. We are very, very vulnerable. A lot of things could happen and it might happen in terms of a major economic collapse brought about by some event or another because again, what is the God of America? The God of America is the almighty dollar, and our God is a jealous God.
Dr. Frazier: Well, and let me give you what financial entity might bring that to pass, it’s called the IOB, the Iranian Oil Bourse. And in March of this last year, the Iranians were to come on line with a new oil market where for the first time, countries could buy oil paying in the euro. Do you realize Dave, because all countries have to keep a reserve of United States dollars on hand to buy their oil with, if they could pay in the Euro, do you realize what would happen to the United States dollar? Economists know, and they are terrified.
Dr. Reagan: Well, we don’t have much time left, but I do want to get just a very quick comment at least from you concerning another chapter you have in your book. And that chapter is about the Antichrist, what is it or who is it? Is the antichrist a person, an influence?
Dr. Frazier: Well, may people have tried to say that the Antichrist is a system. It’s not a system, the Bible’s very clear about this, it is a man. It is Satan incarnate. And one of the questions that people always is do you believe the antichrist is alive today? My answer to that is absolutely. But let me hasten also to add that because Satan is not omniscient because he does not know when Jesus is going to come, in every generation there have been people who have those kinds of sadistic satanic qualities that could be inhabited.
Dr. Reagan: So he’s always had a man ready.
Dr. Frazier: There’s always a man ready, always waiting in the wings, they don’t know who they are. And we, that is, the Believers, are never going to know who he is this side of the Rapture either. So we should not be spending our time trying to figure it out. Second Thessalonians is clear. He will not be made known until after the restrainer, that is the Church, that is the presence of God in the world, is taken out of the way.
Dr. Reagan: Thank you Gary, we really appreciate you being with us, it’s been a great blessing. Folks. Well, that’s it for this week, until next week the Lord willing, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion Ministries saying “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near!”
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