Is American society’s moral wound incurable? Find out with Tim Moore and David Reagan on television’s “Christ in Prophecy”!
Air Date: September 12, 2021
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Tim Moore: For the past several weeks, we’ve highlighted a number of individuals featured in David Reagan’s book, God’s Prophetic Voices to America. Like the prophets of old, they represent a variety of backgrounds and personalities. While none of them were shepherds or kings, cupbearers or carpenters, all of them were raised up to sound an alarm, calling those with eyes to see and ears to hear to wake up, turn back, and repent, before it is too late.
Today we’re going to hear from one more recognized voice. Our guest had the discernment several years ago to realize that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return and the motivation to dedicate his life to proclaiming that wonderful truth.
Stay tuned as we seek insight from Dr. David Reagan himself!
Tim Moore: Hi, I’m Tim Moore, and welcome to this episode of Christ in Prophecy. Today we are going to go right back to the beginning on our series of God’s Prophetic Voices and talk to the man who actually wrote the book, Dr. David Reagan. Dave, I’m so excited to have you back with us today on our newly remodeled set. And I can’t say enough about how eager we were all to get you back here.
Dr. Reagan: Well, thank you. I was very eager to get back. And I am very impressed with the wraparound versatile set that you and your staff have put together here, it is wonderful.
Tim Moore: Well, it gives us a lot of flexibility. And I’ve got to tell you I’m glad to finally have you in the hotseat for a change. But before we jump into today’s episode I know that our viewers will be eager to hear what has been happening in your life, and some of the significant changes that have taken place over these past few months. Not only did you step into an Evangelist Emeritus role here at Lamb & Lion Ministries, but you were actually married to Linda in mid-June and have been on a whirlwind honeymoon for a few weeks. So, with all that broad review catch us up on what you have been up to.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I tell you I’ve had events happening very quickly in my life, because on June the 1st, as you know, I stepped aside, turned the leadership of the ministry over to you, retreated to my home, and I’m going to focus on writing in the future. And then eleven days later I got married, to a wonderful lady named Linda who I had known for 45 years. I knew her husband well, and he had died in May of 2020, and my wife passed on in August of 2020. And in December we started talking with each other, and now about a year later we got married. And so, we have just been getting acquitted with each other even better. And I’ve been on a honeymoon to New Mexico.
Tim Moore: Well, I know you’ve had a great time. And it was even cooler than normal in New Mexico.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, yes, it was wonderful.
Tim Moore: Well, my wife and I corresponded through the mail and courted that way, so I understand those long distance love affairs.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Tim Moore: You know, Dave, before even our transition date on June 1st, I had envisioned a series of programs going back to your book, God’s Prophetic Voices to America. And you endorsed that and gave me the blessing to go ahead and travel around the country to visit those individuals at their home, church, or their headquarters and interview them, demonstrating our appreciation for their ongoing ministry and the voice they’ve provided. But I want to know how did you come up with the list of individuals that you actually featured in your book?
Dr. Reagan: Well, before I answer your question let me just say that I was extremely impressed with the interviews that you did with these fellas. I thought that you did your research well in the background, asked them very relevant questions, and got them to really open up and talk.
Where I got the idea is really dates to the mid-70’s. In the mid-70’s before I found this ministry in 1980, in the mid-70’s, in 1974 David Wilkerson published a book called, The Vision. And I got that book and read it and I was profoundly impressed by it because he talked about a vision that God had given him about this nation, and its future. And the vision was very, very dismal. It was a vision of increasing immorality, increasing violence, increasing economic irresponsibility. And it got me to thinking about where is this nation going? And I began to study Bible prophecy as never before. And I thought, well, the signs of the times are coming together, we are living in those last days, and I better get out of academics and into teaching Bible prophecy and warning people of the soon coming of Jesus. So, it was that book that really was sort of the turn around for me at that time.
Tim Moore: Wow, so really that book spurred you into this ministry with the Lord’s leading, obviously. And then later on David Wilkerson became one of your prophetic voices to America.
Dr. Reagan: That’s right. That’s how I selected him. And when I started selecting, I think there’s what 13? That I have in here.
Tim Moore: Yes, Sir.
Dr. Reagan: And of the 13, what I did I started looking around at who in the world was really speaking about the sins of America. That’s something that most pastors today don’t want to talk about is sin. They want to talk about bad choices, and we are not going to accuse anybody of sinning. And yet, that is the essence of the Gospel, we are sinners, our only hope is faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. So, I started looking about, who is really speaking out about the sins of this nation; who is calling good evil, and evil good? And then the next thing I looked was who is following that up by calling people to repentance? And so, I began to focus on those two things and boy did I run across a group of people who were doing that, who were really identifying the sins of this nation and calling for repentance.
And one of the things that surprised me, Tim, is that most of these turned out to be pastors, and that really surprised me. The people who specialize in Bible prophecy are all out there arguing over when the Rapture is going to occur, and when the Antichrist is going to be revealed, and all these points about Bible prophecy, which are important. But it was the pastors who seemed to be really focusing on the sins of the nation and the need for this nation to repent.
Tim Moore: Well certainly there have been a variety of people in your book that you identified as these prophetic voices. I would observe that like the prophets of ancient Judah and Israel, these prophetic voices seem to have been ignored, even though they were sent by God. And at times their very warnings have been scoffed at or provoked angry denouncements, some of the ones I’ve already interviewed, and we’ve featured have talked about the denouncement that they received even from some who would be their supposed allies. And all of those responses mirror what the prophets of old experienced. So, in spite of these warnings or the failures of these warning to change the nation, what does this prove about the very character of God that He would even send these warnings?
Dr. Reagan: Well, one thing it proves about God is that He is a God who is long suffering, who is patient, and who is full of loving kindness. Any God created by the mind of man would have zapped us a long time ago because of our overwhelming rebellion against the One who has blessed this nation beyond anything any nation has ever known. And yet, He has been so patient with us.
For example, in Psalm 103:8 it says, “The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness.” In that particular statement it said over, and over, and over, throughout the Old Testament Scriptures. It also reminds me of a passage in the book of Nahum where Nahum 1:7 says, “The LORD is good, He is a stronghold in the day of trouble, and He knows those who take refuge in Him.” And we shout, “Hallelujah.”
Tim Moore: Yes we do.
Dr. Reagan: But then you go back up to verse 2, and listen to what it says, “A jealous and avenging God is the Lord; the LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, He reserves wrath for His enemies. The LORD is slow to anger,” praise God, “and great in power, and the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.”
Tim Moore: You know all of the prophetic Word of God provides not only an insight to the wrath, the judgment, that we are deserving of, but gives an opportunity for hope. I go back to Psalm 2 where it talks about the kings taking a stand and it is a vain thing that God actually laughs at from the heavens. But at the end it gives a message of hope how blessed are all those who take refuge in Him, meaning the Son. And so, that hope is part of the wrath that God always warns before He pours out judgment.
Dr. Reagan: It is. But you just put your finger on something else, and that is that one of the most overlooked topics in preaching today is the wrath of God. Nobody wants to preach about the wrath of God. Nobody wants to hear about the wrath of God. You could go to church at most churches for the rest of your life and never hear one sermon about the wrath of God. All we hear is God is a God of love, and forgiveness, and loving kindness, and on and on. And yes, He is. But He has another aspect to His character, and that He is a God of justice, and righteousness, and holiness, and as such He has to deal with sin.
Tim Moore: Yes, He does.
Dr. Reagan: And He does that with the wrath that He pours out. But again, because He is a God of loving kindness He never pours out His wrath without warning. And He does that through prophetic voices and through what I call remedial judgments, where He puts a judgment, like in the book of Joel, Joel begins the book by saying, “You’ve had a locust invasion,” that was the worst thing that could happen to an agricultural country in that day and time. It meant people were going to starve to death, it meant cattle were going to starve to death. And He says, “You are ringing your hands over this locust invasion, and saying, ‘Oh, what bad luck.'” He says, “I’ve got news for you this has nothing to do with luck. God sent the locust, and He sent them to call you to repentance. And if you do not repent He is going to send something worse than locust, He is going to send an army.
Tim Moore: And He certainly did.
Dr. Reagan: And He did.
Tim Moore: Because they didn’t, eventually they stayed wicked and did not stay in a right relationship with God.
Dr. Reagan: They refused to repent.
Tim Moore: So, Dave you mentioned 1974 reading Dave Wilkerson’s book, but when did it really sink into your heart that our nation, and the world at large really, is heading down the path of destruction? And when did you discern specifically for America that our wound is incurable?
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, well, you mentioned that term “wound incurable” most people are not aware of that, but if you look that up, go to Google folks, and type in “the wound that is incurable” and you’ll find it over and over in the Old Testament. It is the point in which, a point of no return. From that point on God has set His mind that He is going to judge, because the wound is incurable. It is when people rebelled to the point that they absolutely refuse to repent. They are shaking their fist at God. He has sent His prophets. He’s sent the remedial judgments and they will not repent. And so, at that point the wound become incurable.
Now, when did I decide that? I’m not certain. But I know this, the first step was reading his book, Dave Wilkerson’s book in 1974 that really got me thinking. And then looking back on it, it’s amazing Peter Marshall in like 1944 called for a prophet. He said, “We need a prophet. We need a person with a prophetic voice who will call this nation to repentance because I see it is going toward materialism, racism, and so forth and so on.” He said, “The days ahead are going to be dark unless we have prophetic voices calling us to repentance.” In 1974 that voice appears, David Wilkerson. But that was not the only one. There was a whole group that appeared then. The next year Francis Schaeffer appears on the scene with his book, with his movie, and what was the title of it? A rather unusual title?
Tim Moore: Yes, How Should We Then Live?
Dr. Reagan: Yes, How Should We Then Live? And again, He was talking about the triumph of humanism in our society. How people were putting their trust in men, rather than putting their trust in God. And He warned us that was a road to devastation and called to repentance.
And then hardly had He done that until 1977 a man by the name of Don Wildmon, who was a pastor of a little country church in Tupelo, Mississippi, God called him and he stepped out and said, “We’ve got to do something about the increasing immorality, and violence on television, and movies in this country.” And he formed his, National Federation for Decency which now is called, The American Family Association.
So, you’ve got 1974 Dave Wilkerson, 1975 Francis Schaeffer, 1977 Don Wildmon. And then to top it off, the cream on the pudding was Aleksander Solzhenitsyn which people say, “What does he have to do with America?” Well, he was kicked out of Russia, he wandered around Europe. He finally came to the United States, settled in Vermont and in 19– I forget what year it was, I think I have it on here, 1978, 1978 he was invited to be the commencement speaker at Harvard. And he was welcomed as a conquering hero, people thought he was wonderful. He’s going to come and denounce Communism. No, he came and criticized America, his host country, which they thought was very crude and rude. But what he said was, “People have asked for years, why did we end up with 70 years of Communism? Suffering like that.” And he said, “There was one answer, men forgot God.” And he said, “I say to you today, this nation is on the same path, you have forgotten God, and you are going to end up in the same situation that we were in.
Tim Moore: And we certainly have gone down that path. I will add another voice to that. You talked about through the 70’s in 1980 God raised you up. And so, I want to ask you this: Let’s talk about your own role as a prophetic voice. As a boy you were a gifted orator. I know that you won competitions. But you were also very gifted academically, and naturally curious. You actually had hobbies to include taking photos. I loved seeing some of the pictures that you took of a disaster in Waco, Texas that were published just in recent years. But then your career propelled you toward degrees in international relations, the academic realm, the business world, and even politics. And ironically even that very background is what the Lord was using to prepare you for this role to lead Lamb & Lion Ministries for so many years. So, tell us how God called you to proclaim Jesus’ soon return.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I graduated from the University of Texas in 1959. I had gone through non-stop; I was tired. So, I decided to lay out a year and decide whether to go to law school or graduate school. And God called me into the ministry. Within a matter of weeks through a bizarre series of circumstances I was pastoring a little church in Groesbeck, Texas, the poor people I feel sorry for them, I knew nothing about pastoring. The church only had two families and they both hated each other, one sat on one side, the other. Nobody would do anything. I had to lead the singing. I had to do the communion. I had to lead the prayers. I had to do the preaching, everything.
Tim Moore: That will wear you out.
Dr. Reagan: And I knew God had called me. But unlike Isaiah who said, “Here am I, Lord, send me.” I said, “Here I am Lord, send anybody in the world but me because I’ve got my own idea for the future.” I was going to go to school, either law school or graduate school and I was going to ultimately end up being a politician like you did.
Tim Moore: For a season.
Dr. Reagan: So, I walked away from God. And I made Jonah look like an amateur in running from God, he only ran for a short time, I ran for 20 years. And during that time, I accomplished many things. I won a Fulbright Fellowship. I got all kinds of rewards and accolades, but I was miserable. I was miserable because I was not in the center of God’s will.
And finally, when I got into the study of Bible prophecy I had a burning sensation in my heart to share this with as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. And so, I just finally decided, I don’t have time to go into all the details, but one day I decided I had to give it up. So, I went to the president of the university, that I was vice president of at that time, and I said, “I am resigning.” And he said, “You’re resigning?” I said, “Yes. I’m giving you two weeks’ notice.” He said, “Well, do you need a new car?” I said, “No.” “Do you want a membership at the country club?” I said, “No.” I said, “I’ve been called of God to preach.” And he was a former preacher, and so he said, “Oh, well, I understand. What church?” I said, “No church.” He said, “What are you going to do?” “I’m just going to step out and preach Jesus is coming soon, we are living in the season of the Lord’s return.” He said, “Oh, when are you going to do that?” I said, “Two weeks.” He looked at his calendar and he said, “That is April the 1st.” He said, “All I can say to you is you’ve selected a very appropriate date.”
Tim Moore: Well, what was foolishness to man was actually God’s work through you and in your life. And so, we are grateful for that fact.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I am grateful that I finally did it. But the interesting thing is that I realized later that all the time that I was running from God He was preparing me for what I was going to do. He had me teaching international law, international politics, and that is what end time Bible prophecy is all about, it is international politics. And so, when I finally said, yes, and took the plunge, I suddenly was preaching and teaching end time international politics from the biblical viewpoint instead of from Harvard’s viewpoint.
Tim Moore: Well, some people think that politics, Christians sometimes think that politics is a dirty human endeavor. And as a former legislature I can say that it is a sorted arena. But yet, the prophets in the Bible were frequently sent to call out kings and rulers. And they were intertwined in the political realm, for instance in Israel and Judah, and God’s revelation about the end times has much to say about the nations of the world and politics if you will. So, this is part of Bible prophecy. And so, where are we today, not just in America but in the world?
Dr. Reagan: Well, let me just comment on something you said there. I wish more people would realize that is the nature of a prophetic call, part of it at least, and that is to speak out about what is going on in society. Any preacher who gets up and preaches from the Word of God about a societal problem like same-sex marriage, homosexuality, national debt, whatever he is delivering a prophetic message.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: That is a message that takes God’s Word and applies it to contemporary situations. And yet, people, I get mail all the time saying, “Why are you criticizing the President? Why are you criticizing the Secretary of State? You’re not supposed to judge anybody. You are not supposed to say anything critical of anybody. You are a Christian.” Come on. Look at what the prophets did, they not only called them out, they read them the riot act.
Tim Moore: They certainly did.
Dr. Reagan: Amos a fig picker from Tekoa went from Judah where he was born, up to the northern nation of Israel and read them the riot act.
Tim Moore: He certainly did.
Dr. Reagan: And in fact, the high priest went to the king and said, “You can’t believe what this guy down from Judah is saying about you and about this nation.” And the king said, “You go tell him that he either stops or I’m going to kill him.” So, he goes and tells him, and Amos looks at him in the face and says, “Let me tell you something because of what you have done you are going to die, your wife is going to die, your whole family is going to die.” And they did.
Tim Moore: You know that is the kind of preaching, though, as you said people don’t like to offer today even as pastors. And yet when you have the prophetic Word sink into your heart. I love what you said a few moments ago, it became like a burning in your heart to share that good news or that truth. And that is exactly what the disciples on the road to Emmaus said, when Jesus revealed to them the prophetic Word, and they said, “Didn’t our hearts burn within us.” So, let’s go back for a minute to that bright eyed boy from Texas, because in the 50’s America was at the pinnacle of its economic, and its military superpower status, and yet we still had some moral clarity, at least on the visible signs. And yet, there was already decay in our bones. As we moved toward the 80’s and some people refused to understand the direction we were headed how easy was it to convince Christians in particular, but people in general that we are headed in the wrong direction? How did they resonate with your message early on?
Dr. Reagan: Almost impossible to convince anyone. I had a new, I guess a new sensation about this shortness of time in 1991 when the Iron Curtain fell, and I went to Russia, and I could not believe my eyes. I went into the stores in Moscow, they are all empty. They had no food, they had no clothing, nothing. Clerks were standing there, but they had nothing to sell. The streets were filled with hundreds of thousands of people with card tables and they were a barter economy, I’ll trade you blue jeans for milk, I’ll play you this for cheese. And I stood there and looked at it, and God spoke to my heart, He said, go back and preach this. Tell the people of America that to those to whom much is given, much is expected. I have blessed them more than any other nation of the world. When I lower my judgment on them it will be nothing compared, I mean this will be nothing compared to what is going to happen to America. These people have not had radios, and televisions to listen to sermons. They haven’t had Bibles. You’ve had the radio sermons, you’ve had the TV sermons, you’ve had the Christian bookstores, you’ve had–and yet, you are rebelling against Me, you are turning against Me. Tell America this. I came back I preached it and people wouldn’t invite me back. And people would just say, “That is nonsense.”
I think what happened is that American people began to think that God would never touch us because we are the greatest nation in the world. He sits on His throne in an American flag draped over His shoulders. They treated me the same way they treated Jeremiah when Jeremiah would say, “Repent or be destroyed.” And they said, “The temple, the temple, the temple.” And what they meant by that was God will never touch us because His Shekinah Glory dwells in the Temple. You are insane to say that He would let somebody destroy that temple, and yet they did.
Tim Moore: Exactly so. I spoke of that very passage this last week on July 4th as we were taping because it is so important to apply that truth to America today. And I’ll observe again that we have drifted. Many people now understand that we are on a very dangerous path. So, as we look forward, what do you–we don’t ever make a prediction of when the Lord is coming back, that would be unbiblical, and ungodly, but we say we are living in the season of the Lord’s return, if He stays His coming. Learning from the example of Judah and Israel and applying biblical discernment to our own day and age what do you see happening in America and around the world in the next six to twelve months, five or ten years, or next generation or two?
Dr. Reagan: I see our nation and the world becoming increasingly dark, with increasing immorality, violence, collapse of economies, it’s going to get worse. It’s not going to get better; it’s going to get worse. And the reason I know that is because I know we are living in the season of the Lord’s return because all the signs have converged. And all end time Bible prophecy speaks of increasing apostasy in the Church, the Church becoming ever more apostate, and society becoming as immoral and violent as it was in the days of Noah.
So, you know we have preachers all over this nation today preaching that we are going to have this great revival, and I wish that were true, I do not believe it will happen. But I can understand their feeling, and I am not going to criticize them for that. But I am going to say this, I do not believe there is any hope for revival in this nation because of the fact that we are in the end times, we are seeing these prophecies fulfilled before our very eyes. And that is why Adrian Rogers the great pastor who has gone on to be with the Lord said, “The world is growing gloriously dark.” Because the darkness shows Jesus at the very gate of Heaven about to return. And Jan Markell is always saying, “The world is not falling to pieces, all the pieces are falling into place.”
Tim Moore: Exactly so. And so, we have great hope even though there is not hope for America as a whole, or the world, there is hope for every individual.
Dr. Reagan: Individual.
Tim Moore: Every individual watching this program or hearing this message can turn in repentance to Jesus Christ, accept the free offer of salvation from Him.
Dr. Reagan: Amen.
Tim Moore: Well, our viewers would be eager to know, so I have to ask Dave: What is your next writing project? You mentioned you are going to write, so what is the next book that we can look forward to?
Dr. Reagan: Well, it is a book that I was going to originally name, America’s Destiny. But I’m fiddling with the name right now. And the name that is on my mind most right now, and probably will end up with is, America’s Suicide.
Tim Moore: Oh, boy. Well now, that is an inditement of where we are, but again there is still hope for every individual who recognizes that without the Lord, without His grace, we have no hope, but only in Him do we have salvation.
Dr. Reagan: And boy do we have it. I mean it is wonderful to put your hope in Jesus Christ and be able to look forward to the
future, all the promises he has given us.
Tim Moore: You know as long as I have known you and when you began to speak in the early 90’s with that conviction, that we are really turning the corner toward the end is when I first heard you, and my heart became aflame. So, I am so very grateful. Well, people would be angry at me if I did not give you the opportunity to answer any question that I either failed to ask or did not ask. What would you like to share with our viewers today?
Dr. Reagan: What I would share with your viewers is that we have run out of time. Our time is short. Jesus is at the very gates. The Rapture could occur any moment, don’t be left behind, put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He is our only hope. Not political parties. Not political leaders. Jesus Christ.
Tim Moore: Well, Dave I can tell you this it has been a distinct honor to follow in your footsteps. As I’ve said its very humbling because you have about size 18 shoes that I have to try to fill. But I want to personally thank you not only for your continued service in and through Lamb & Lion Ministries, to the Lord Himself, but for the legacy that you have established. Boy, we are all humbled to be able to follow in the calling that the Lord laid on your life. So, thank you for joining me on this episode of Christ in Prophecy.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I praise God for raising you up to do so.
Tim Moore: You and the Lord God, I will give both credit. But praise to Him, and thanks to you. And I can assure you and our viewers that Dave Reagan will be back when he produces a book or other things. We are going to have him back on a regular basis, and we even have some other surprise projects instore, so, stay tuned.
Tim Moore: I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s show—and our very special guest. In fact, I pray that this 10-part series on God’s Prophetic Voices has been a blessing to you.
As He did with Israel and Judah, God has been faithful to raise up prophetic voices here in America. Individually and collectively, they call us to repent and turn back to Him. They warn that God will not be mocked, and that His righteous anger toward people who “ought to know better” will be worse than for those who never claimed to know Him in the first place.
So far, America has not heeded these voices. That does not undermine the importance of their call or their message. Like Ezekiel of old, God would have held them to account if they failed to cry out.
What about you? You may be the only watchman in your family, or your community, or at your church. If you understand the dire situation we are in, do you also have a responsibility to cry out?
I pray that this series has motivated you to speak up. As Erwin Lutzer wrote, We Will Not be Silenced. The culture will try to cancel us, but “greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world.”
I do know this: God will continue to raise up prophetic voices until the cup of His wrath overflows. We do not know how much longer He will wait. But, as long as we have time, we have a mission.
This is Tim Moore for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, Godspeed, come quickly Lord Jesus!
End of Program