Are there animals whose existence defies Evolution? Find out with Dr. Jobe Martin on the show Christ in Prophecy.
Last aired on September 25, 2011.
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Dr. Reagan: Did you know that there are creatures so incredibly complex that their very nature defies the concept of evolution? For more information stay tuned for an interview with Dr. Jobe Martin an expert on the issue of Evolution versus Creation.
Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our blessed hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. Once again this week for the fourth week in a row we’re going to focus on the Creation versus Evolution debate. And once again I am pleased to have as my special guest Dr. Jobe Martin, Founder and Director of Biblical Discipleship Ministries in Rockwall, Texas. Dr. Martin you have really blessed us these last 3 weeks. I want to thank you again for sharing your time with us and we are delighted to have you back.
Dr. Martin: It has been a blessing for us.
Dr. Reagan: And we are going to be praying for your ministry and we want you to put us on your prayer list to pray for us.
Dr. Martin: You got it, you got it.
Dr. Reagan: Alright, thank you. And once again this week folks we have with us Nathan Jones, who is our newest staff member here at Lamb and Lion Ministries and he is our Web Minister and he is the fellow who corresponds with you when you write in asking question about Bible prophecy. Nathan glad to have you back with us.
Nathan Jones: It is great to be here with you and Dr. Martin, the man behind all these videos and books.
Dr. Reagan: Dr. Martin speaking of videos you have produced several video programs in the past called Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution. And I want you to know I saw those and they really defy evolution, but we are going to ask you in a few minutes what that means. First of all I understand you’ve just recorded a new version of that.
Dr. Martin: We did, we just finished Creation Proclaims: The Glory of God Revealed.
Dr. Reagan: Okay.
Dr. Martin: And these will be different in that instead of me just talking about the animals and then having pictures of them I am actually with the animals.
Dr. Reagan: I understand in one you even have a snake around your neck.
Dr. Martin: Well I didn’t volunteer for that, they just came out with this big boa constrictor and just put it on me. So what do you do? The cameras are on and what are you supposed to do?
Dr. Reagan: So you actually have the animals there that is really something.
Dr. Martin: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Now when will this video be available?
Dr. Martin: Well we are hoping it will be available in Christmas of 2008, but it might be more like January.
Dr. Reagan: Okay. So we will, people can find out about that by going to your website and we will tell them a little more about that later on, okay.
Dr. Martin: Sure enough.
Dr. Reagan: Well let’s go back to this title, Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution, what in the world do you mean by that?
Dr. Martin: Well as I said I think on our first show, when I became a believer in the Lord Jesus, I went from being an Agnostic, Zen Buddhist, Evolutionist, to being a Theistic Evolutionist. I still had the Big Bang and the billions of years. And then I gave that lecture at Baylor Dental College on the evolution of the tooth from fish scales, and these students challenged me. And so we started this study and they wanted me to study Creation Science. So I am reading my Bible we are studying the assumptions that the Evolutionist make, which I discovered they aren’t valid, when we are talking origins. And then we are studying animals. I was a Biology major and the first animal that these students called to my attention, this was 1971, was the bombardier beetle, and it is just a little half inch bug, we have them here in Texas.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, they are here, I didn’t know that? I thought there were in some esoteric place like Madagascar.
Dr. Martin: Oh yeah, no we’ve got them here. It is a black variety, but they shoot their enemies, like if a frog or a spider or hop-toad gets close to them they are going to shoot it, and with fiery hot acids.
Dr. Reagan: What do they shoot it with?
Dr. Martin: Well they mix some chemicals. Matter of fact when they mix these chemicals they won’t do anything, they are like in neutral. So that would mean it doesn’t have a defense mechanism, if evolution is true, and it is trying to evolve along all of the spiders would eat it, it wouldn’t be here. But it has another little chemical factory, down inside its self that makes exactly, precisely, the right chemical catalyst, so that when it squirts that into this solution it won’t do anything, you get this violent reaction. And so if he didn’t have some more equipment he would just splattered himself, and of course splattered bug pieces can not evolve. So that would be the end of the beetle. But we have him because he has like an asbestos lined firing chamber, but even if he had that boom, he is gone if he doesn’t have somewhere for the explosion to go. But he does twin tail tubes, he can aim those tubes out the back, out the side, out the front. And when you hear him shoot it is like a pop, it is just like that. But that isn’t what it is, they put that pop in slow motion and it is like a sequential, sequential boom. And they figured out why, because he has these little tiny feet and if he shoots let’s say out the side and he goes bang and it isn’t small bangs like that his feet couldn’t hold on and he would blow himself right out of the picture. So our Lord the Creator made him so that he could shoot in any direction.
Dr. Reagan: All right, why does this defy evolution?
Dr. Martin: Well I think, what I am thinking is, there is no way he could evolve little bits and pieces at a time because he would be dead every time. He is I think we mentioned earlier, he is irreducibly complex. He needs all his parts, they all have to work, they all have to be fully functional.
Dr. Reagan: He couldn’t develop this complex mechanism over millions of years because he as you said would be eaten long before then.
Dr. Martin: Yeah, he would either be eaten or if he got some of the mechanisms he would blow himself up. So either way, there is no way he could evolve, so in that sense I think it defies evolution.
Dr. Reagan: Well give us another example.
Dr. Martin: Well the second one that we looked at which I really enjoy talking about is the giraffe. And you talk about a bull giraffe, 18 feet tall, alright and it has a huge pump to pump the blood up that long skinny neck against gravity, the heart, the heart of a bull giraffe can weigh up to 25 pounds, that is like a big turkey. And it can be almost 2 ½ feet long, it is a powerful pump and when it squeezes it shoots that blood up that long skinny neck against gravity. Now we’ve got a problem, he is going to bend his head down to get a drink of water.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, pass out I guess.
Dr. Martin: Well all the blood, the heart squeezes and the blood goes zoom and hits, and blows his brains out his ears and he is dead. And so he must be thinking, I’ve got a problem, when I get a drink of water I blow my brains out, okay. I better evolve something here to fix this. Well of course dead animals don’t evolve. But anyway it doesn’t blow its brains out why, because as he comes down there is like little spigot, little valves, in the artery that goes up the neck, they close. When his head is down there is like a sponge under the brain and it gently expands, hasn’t blown his brains out. He gets his drink of water and he sees a lion coming up, I got to get out of here, he is going to eat me. He jumps up he runs about three steps, passes out, not enough oxygen to the brain. The lion eats him, he says I have another problem, I pass out when I get up to fast, the lion eats me. Well dead animals don’t evolve, they can’t fix it. Well anyway, but he doesn’t pass out, because as he comes up our Creator the Lord Jesus has those valves open, the sponge under the brain gently squeezes that last pump of oxygenated blood up into his brain and he is doing just fine. Only God could do that. And they still say in the textbooks that the giraffe got his long neck because all the food had run out and he is trying to eat up here in the trees. And I am saying, okay, good, but what about Mrs. Giraffe? She is two feet shorter. What about baby giraffe? If all the food is gone and he’s got to stretch up here to eat out of the top of the tree what is baby giraffe going to eat after they are weaned from their mama? It doesn’t make any sense at all.
Nathan Jones: Millions of years between meals.
Dr. Martin: That would be it.
Dr. Reagan: What is the term now that you use here, irreducible?
Dr. Martin: Irreducible complexity, it’s like we reduce fractions down and you can’t reduce them down anymore. Complexity all of the different parts that are needed and so they are irreducible, you can’t take them down anymore, they need all these parts. And all the parts have to be fully functional, you can’t have a partial formed heart, or a partially formed valve, or a partially formed sponge, they have to all be there, they have to all be fully functional or you don’t have a giraffe.
Dr. Reagan: Now you mentioned that in this new video you have produced that you had a snake around your neck at some point. What were you illustrating with the snake?
Dr. Martin: Well there are several things. We had a python and a boa constrictor, both of them big snakes.
Dr. Reagan: You didn’t have a Texas rattlesnake?
Dr. Martin: Well we have a Mojave Desert Rattlesnake, which is supposed to be the most vicious type rattlesnake. I wish we had a Texas rattlesnake, you know they get pretty big you can get an eight footer. But anyway, the python for instance, around it’s lips, in between the scales it has sensory organs that can sense heat, in like a live animal that they want to eat. And they are so sensitive that it can be a pitch black night and it can go right to that whatever it is it wants to eat, and strike it and it never misses. And can’t see a thing, it is just the heat sensors in its lips that tell it exactly what to do. And you know you have seen a snake their fork tongue comes out, they don’t have to open their mouth to do that. There is a grove in the lower jam that lets them stick out their tongue because they are crawling around in the dirt. And if they had to open their mouth to get their tongue out, which is sensing it is picking up molecules of things, they would fill their mouth up with dirt all the time. And so God made them so they can get that tongue out there. When they bring it back in they touch it to an organ on the roof of their mouth called Jacobson’s organ, and it tells them exactly which molecules they are tasting and they can follow a prey, just by tasting the dust and stuff as they get toward it. It is miraculous things.
Dr. Reagan: Alright give us an example from the ocean, you have talked about land animals, what about ocean.
Dr. Martin: Well I’ll tell you what on this new video we have some nudibranch, there a sea slug. These things are amazing, they are psychedelic colors they are beautiful things. And what one of them does, it will eat like an anemone another sea creature and that creature has little stinging cells, they shot like little darts. And it will eat this thing but it doesn’t set off the darts and it will digest what it wants to eat. Anything else that touches this anemone will set off these darts, but not the nudibranch. So it eats the whole thing, digest the food part, takes those darts, transfers them through tubes out to it’s own back and into it’s gill structures and then it uses the defense mechanism of the animal that it ate as it’s own defense mechanism.
Nathan Jones: No.
Dr. Martin: Yeah, it is like it cannibalizes this animal to use, it recycles these stinging cells and it potentiates them. They are stronger once they get out through the back of the nudibranch then they are when they are in the anemone. It is miraculous things.
Dr. Reagan: Isn’t it amazing what can just happen accidentally? Just give it enough time and it will happen, that’s what I hear all the time. Just give it enough time and that monkey will sooner or later type Shakespeare.
Dr. Martin: That is exactly right, yeah. And what they don’t tell you about that is if that is true you would also have to have a delete key for everything that they touch because there is a 50/50 chance here, one way or the other.
Dr. Reagan: Well we have about 1 minute in this session tell us, give us an example of one of these creatures that is flying.
Dr. Martin: Well we have an owl on this last DVD and an owl is silent when it flies and how? All other birds you can hear their wings.
Dr. Reagan: The flapping of the wings.
Dr. Martin: Sure, but of course their going to find their prey mainly by hearing.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Dr. Martin: They have that circle of feathers around their face that are special feathers that channel the sound into their ear holes. And their ear holes are not the things up here, their ear holes are right under their eyes and there not at the same level. They get the sound in at 1/30th of a millionth of a second at a different rate, and that tells them exactly where this is. But if their wings made noise they couldn’t hear the sound. They can hear a mouse crawling around, a great grey owl, two feet of snow there can be a mouse under two feet of snow it can hear it, it can’t see it, it will dive down right on it, okay. Well they’ve go this little fringe of tiny little hairs that go up the sides of the feathers that somehow God made those things so those little hairs deflect the wind across there in such a way that the owl flies with silent flight.
Dr. Reagan: Now that is fascinating, I have never heard that before.
Dr. Martin: Yes, where does that come from? If there isn’t a God that designed that and made that, how would evolution produce that? I don’t see anyway.
Dr. Reagan: Well welcome back to our interview with Dr. Jobe Martin, who is the Founder and Director of Biblical Discipleship Ministries. And Dr. Martin is an expert on the Evolution/Creationist debate and we are just having a ball interviewing him, Nathan Jones and I. Dr. Martin I wanted to talk a little about the human body. I mean these creatures that God has created are absolutely remarkable and I thank you for sharing that. But hey, we are pretty remarkable too, so let’s talk about the eye for a moment. Even Darwin recognized how fantastic the human eye is. I want to read you a statement by Darwin, he said, “To suppose that the eye with all of its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus for different distances, for admitting different amounts of light and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.”
Dr. Martin: What else can you say about that? It is. I mean the way it takes the light and we can’t make binoculars, we can’t make glasses that can duplicate what our eyes can do. I mean we can be focused up, focused long, focused short. They are designed so even though we have two eyes you can only look at 1 thing at a time and it is a small amount that you can really focus on. Everything else is kind of not in focus in the sense that, like if everything you looked was in exactly the same focus, you are reading a page and all of the words would be right in front of you. So we have to be able to do it that way. When we walk you kind of do this when you walk, God made two special muscles they are involuntary as we walk your horizon stays the same out there, because you turn your head but the horizon does not do this because the eyes are just doing this as you walk. And so there are all these things built in to everything ears, eyes, nose, mouth, teeth, everything that God made.
Dr. Reagan: I mentioned to you previously off camera that I saw a video recently about a little girl who cut her finger. They were telling all the things that the human body does when you have a cut to keep you from bleeding to death.
Dr. Martin: Well, not only that, why don’t, why doesn’t your blood clot inside your body? It only clots when you cut and here you go. Unless you have some pathological condition that you get a clot in there, but then you’ve got problems. So that doesn’t really happen, you think of all the billions of people and how many on any given day would have a clot in the wrong place, almost no, almost none of that.
Dr. Reagan: Well this also reminds me of something that you mentioned in your book called, The Evolution of a Creationist, and I was fascinated by it, you called it the anthropic principle, now what is that?
Dr. Martin: Well the anthropic principle is basically it looks like our Earth was made with man in mind. I mean the Earth has just the right size, to produce just the right amount of gravity it is just the right distance from the moon. And the moon is just the right size in relationship to planet Earth, so that the tidal patterns work right and other things. And then our Earth, Moon system is exactly the right distance from the sun which is exactly the right size so that it produces exactly the right amount of heat and we don’t burn up or freeze up. When you just look at the constants in nature, there is no room for error in there. The air is made of just the right–
Dr. Reagan: But what you don’t understand Dr. Martin is that this is just an amazing series of circumstances of coincidences.
Dr. Martin: And accidents.
Nathan Jones: Yes billions and billions of accidents, all working together to work.
Dr. Martin: Yes, this explosion caused everything to work out absolutely perfectly for life. To me that doesn’t even make sense, it used to, but it doesn’t anymore.
Dr. Reagan: Well, Nathan you had a question about some of the things that are going on today among Evolutionist.
Nathan Jones: Certainly, well I was watching that Ben Stein movie, Expelled, and at the very end he gets 1 of the leading Evolutionist Richard Dawkins, on his own to say, “Well I think life probably must of happened by intelligent design from aliens from another planet.” We are starting to see a migration of Evolutionist say, “Well if there is intelligent design it comes from aliens.” What do you think of that?
Dr. Martin: Well you hear that all the time and that doesn’t answer the question. The question is: Where did life come from? How did it get started out there? You know it started somewhere.
Dr. Reagan: Who created them?
Dr. Martin: Exactly, exactly. So I mean that just removes the question from where we can test it. So they say we will put it out there somewhere. Well how do you test that? You know you can’t get out there to see where it happened, and so yeah that is just–
Dr. Reagan: Doesn’t this illustrate the desperation of Evolutionist in their current arguments?
Dr. Martin: Oh I think it does, I think it does. It is like in that movie, Expelled, one of the scientists says, “Well life came in it was molecules riding on crystals.” Well where did the molecules come from? Where did the crystals come from? Where did the life come from in the molecules riding on the crystals? You know it doesn’t answer any questions.
Dr. Reagan: No it doesn’t and it just, you wonder what there going to revert to next. Now we are off this planet onto other planets, and where does all this end? I mean when do you just finally say, “We don’t have an argument here?”
Dr. Martin: Yes, well I think that is when you just come and bow down before your Creator and say, “Okay, Lord I have looked at all of this there is no way it makes sense apart from you.” And that is what He wants us to do, that is general revelation. We study the creation, study what God has made and that should bring us to our knees before God. What do we do then? We go into the Bible to find out about this God. And that was kind of my life. I looked at everything, oh yeah Evolution is true. Well wait a minute, maybe it isn’t true, what am I going to do? The Bible had the answers. So general revelation the Creation should take us to special revelation or specific revelation; the Word of God and that should lead us to redemption.
Dr. Reagan: Well it is so difficult though when you have invested so much of your life into a particular philosophy, into a particular theory, and to even the point of saying it is no longer a theory, it is a proven fact. To try to back off from that, it is very difficult.
Dr. Martin: Oh boy, and I’ll tell you who is the worst, geologist. I just love those guys, but they are so steeped in the idea that those rock layers had to take billions of years. They just, praise God, some of them get the point, but they are tough.
Dr. Reagan: Let me give you an example, we have a member of our board of trustees who is a graduate of Stanford University. He was one of the most brilliant students that Stanford ever had. He got his PhD at a very early age, he was their most outstanding student. At age 35 he was selected the most outstanding research scientist in the United States. He is now a research scientist for General Electric in the field of MRI research. When he got into his PhD oral exams, they discovered that he was a believer in God and a believer in a Young Earth and they were astonished. How can you go through our program and come out a believer in these things. And he said, “I just looked at the evidence.” And I said, “What is the best explanation of the evidence?” And the best explanation of the evidence is special creation.
Dr. Martin: Amen.
Dr. Reagan: They refused to give him his degree.
Dr. Martin: I can believe it.
Dr. Reagan: But, on the threat of a suit, since they had nothing to stand on since he was their most outstanding student they had to give him his degree.
Dr. Martin: Isn’t that something.
Dr. Reagan: But let me tell you they were going to fight him over this and they couldn’t image. Yet he did it by looking at the evidence and saying, “The evidence the best explanation is special creation.”
Dr. Martin: Yes, well that is what it is, when you look at the evidence, the hard true scientific evidence, not the evidence based on assumptions. You look at the evidence and there is only one option, there’s got to be a designer and He’s got to be all powerful, all knowledge, and it has to be the God of the Bible.
Dr. Reagan: And you know one of the things that has impressed me too, incredible catastrophes like Mount Saint Helens we have learned first hand how rapidly some of these things can happen that people have argued must take millions of years to happen. Right?
Dr. Martin: Oh yeah, one example is what they call polystrata fossils, trees and on the top of the lake, Spirit Lake all these dead trees they began to float with the root end down as they got water logged, then they dropped to the bottom and 5 days later another one drops to the bottom but now some sediments filled in so it is up higher. Well they used to say well that takes thousands of years, you have an ancient forest, an ancient sea, and then another ancient forest and another ancient sea. No, we are watching it happen, what 28 years later we are seeing polystrata, the whole organization of polystrata fossils. So yes all kinds of things like that. Just, they dated the rocks, the lava rocks up there, the same thing, there dating techniques do not work.
Dr. Reagan: Well Dr. Martin I want to thank you once again for being with us in this series of programs. You have blessed us immensely, I know you have blessed our viewers. And as we bring this series of programs to a close I would like for you to tell our viewers once again how they can get in touch with your ministry.
Dr. Martin: Well you can get in touch with us by going on our web, www.biblicaldiscipleship.org, or evolutionofacreationist.com.
Dr. Reagan: And through that they can find out the materials your ministry has produced, they can order them that way, and they can also contact you in terms of invitations to come and speak.
Dr. Martin: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Great. Well Nathan, one last question.
Nathan Jones: Again I want to thank you for coming, wow it is great to meet the guy I have learned so much from you in the classes. Can you share with me and everyone out there who is learning, why do you feel it is important to believe the Biblical account of Creation? Why is it so vital, maybe a summary?
Dr. Martin: Well, I think the first point is: who determines truth, is it God or is it man? If it is God, then where do we find His truth? In His Word, He says, “His Word is truth.” And it is that truth that will set us free, it is that truth that sanctifies us.
Well if we go to the Creation account in Genesis and we say, “Well, you know we can’t really take that literally.” Well, then how much of the rest of the Bible do we say, “I don’t really have to take that literally?” And that moves right into Bible prophecy, well if we don’t take those early chapters of Genesis literally, we don’t have to take Bible prophecy literally. And so all of a sudden we have wishy-washy ideas about the Bible.
We can believe those early chapter of Genesis, Jesus is the Creator. If Jesus is not the Creator and He didn’t do it like He says He did it, and this is His Word, Genesis is His Word. Well, then can we believe Him when He tells us He died for our sins? So I don’t think so.
And I think that is one of the reasons we are losing so many of our kids. Our kids are raised in homes and Dad and Mom, we believe in Jesus. But do you believe in the Creation, well no, we are Theistic Evolutionist, or we are Progressive Creationists. And all of a sudden our young people are saying, “Oh I guess you can’t really trust the Bible as it is just a common ordinary way to read it.” And we are losing them we are losing up to 88% published figures by the end of four years of college. So it is absolutely crucial that we understand this issue and then realize that almost every false worldview is based on Evolution. Without Evolution you don’t have it, but Evolution robs God of His glory, it steals His praise.
God says, “I created, here is how I did it. I did it in six days.” And we say, “I don’t think I believe that.” So I think the crucial thing is, is God’s Word truth? And if we say it is, and we do as a Christian, this Word is God’s truth. Well then lets believe it from page one which we can do, we can trust Him. There is no science that is testable, verifiable, experimentally reproducible, falsifiable science that discredits anything this book say. Not any. There is not one scientific experiment anywhere that is a true experiment, not based on assumptions that are false, that will discredit and disprove the Bible. We can trust it.
Dr. Reagan: Fact of the matter is there was only one person present when the Creation occurred and that was God Almighty Himself.
Dr. Martin: An eye witness, eye witness.
Dr. Reagan: So we have really an eye-witness account here.
Dr. Martin: Well yeah, we have a triple eye-witness, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, and He says all we need is two to make it right.
Dr. Reagan: Well, that is certainly true. Well, Dr. Martin as we bring the program to a close how about just looking in that camera again and speaking to someone out there who may not know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Dr. Martin: If you don’t know Jesus as your Savior, I would encourage you get a Bible, start reading, read the book of John. Realize, okay, here is what the Bible says and then just pray, I did, Lord Jesus you show me, you show me what’s true, and if it is true I am going to believe it. And then realize you are a sinner, we are all sinners, maybe you are a New Ager, maybe you think there is no such thing as sin, you are a sinner. We do things that are evil, that go against what God says, He says, that even while were sinners Christ died for us. So I would encourage you put your faith and trust in Jesus, believe in Him. Invite Him to be your Savior, ask Him to forgive your sins, receive Him as your Savior, He is your resurrected Lord, He is your resurrected Savior and Creator and He loves you.
Dr. Reagan: Thank you Dr. Martin. Well folks that is our program for this week. I hope this series have been as much a blessing to you as it has been to me. Hope you’ll be back with us next week, until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion Ministries, saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”
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