The Copper Scroll with Jim Barfield

What is the archaeological significance of the Copper Scroll? Find out with guest Jim Barfield on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Air Date: January 19, 2020

Video References

The Copper Scroll Project

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Transcript

Dr. Reagan: We have a very special program for you today. It relates to the cave pictured here that is located in the Holy Land on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea, near a place called Qumran. It is where the first discovery of Dead Sea Scrolls was made in the mid-1940’s by a Bedouin sheepherder. In subsequent years, other scrolls were discovered including one inscribed on copper. Some believe that copper scroll reveals the hiding places of many of the Temple treasures that were hidden before the Temple was destroyed either by the Babylonians, or later by the Romans. For an interview with the world’s greatest expert on this scroll, stay tuned.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Nathan Jones, and I have a very special guest today. He is Jim Barfield, a former Oklahoma firefighter, and highly respected arson investigator. I got interested in Jim, when a person gave me a copy of this book, “The Copper Scroll Project” by Shelley Neese. I found it to be absolutely mesmerizing, and it is all about archaeological explorations in Israel concerning the Copper Scroll, and the central figure in the book, Jim Barfield. So, Jim we are glad to have you with us today. And I want to begin with a very obvious question, and that question is: How in the world did an arson investigator from Oklahoma get involved with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and one in particular the Copper Scroll, and in fact become probably the world’s greatest expert on that scroll.

Jim Barfield: Well, all the firefighters are archaeologist in Oklahoma.

Dr. Reagan: Well, that’s true you’re digging through ashes.

Jim Barfield: Always digging through ashes and looking for stuff. You know what it was? It was my Bible study. I came to the Lord when I was 35 years old, and I had been on the fire department about 5 years. And I just when I started my religious life, and believing in Yeshua, Jesus I just fell in love with it. And that’s what got me on the path. I studied the Dead Sea Scrolls. Then I began to study the Copper Scroll. And when I started studying the Copper Scroll I realized through another gentleman, his name was Vendyl Jones. He told me that the Copper Scroll had more prophecy in it than all of the others put together. Now Vendyl was a character, wonderful guy, but he was a character. And I listened to him. And I thought, “Well, I’ll give it a shot.” And then one night in December 2006, it was during Hanukkah, I realized within five minutes I knew how to understand the Copper Scroll. Within 20 minutes I had had figured out the first five locations of the Copper Scroll. You’ve got to understand this scroll was found in 1952, and no one’s figured out how to understand it. But I got it.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, so for the benefit of our viewers let me just make clear that the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the mid-40’s.

Jim Barfield: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And this was found in 1952. And when you said locations what you’re talking about is that this Copper Scroll seems to be a scroll that is telling about where certain treasures are buried, correct?

Jim Barfield: Yes, there are some out there that would argue with me, but I don’t care. These are First Temple treasures. And there are about 57 locations according to the research that I’ve done.

Dr. Reagan: Well, now, let me just stop you there and ask you a question. In the reading that I’ve done on this most of the people seem to believe that these treasures came either from the Second Temple, or they came before the Bar-Kokhba Revolt or during it. Why do you put it in the first, the First Temple? That puts it way back there.

Jim Barfield: Oh, it does. But as an investigator you’ve got to listen to everybody.

Dr. Reagan: Okay.

Jim Barfield: You got to get all your information gathered.

Dr. Reagan: So, what evidence puts it there?

Jim Barfield: The evidence was about four different manuscripts from the time of the actual events, which were at Jeremiah time frame. There are four different documents that say that it was during the Jeremiah period, and it was during the exile into Babylon.

Dr. Reagan: What was during then?

Jim Barfield: Whenever the men at Qumran buried the treasures there in the ruins.

Dr. Reagan: Does it ever mention specifically a copper scroll?

Jim Barfield: It does indeed.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, is that right?

Jim Barfield: Yeah, it was Emeq HaMelekh which means Valley of the King written in the 1600’s. And the gentleman said that it was–it was all this information was put on a copper plate, “luach nechoshet” which means copper plate in Hebrew.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Nathan Jones: What is so odd about, we are talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls, they were papyrus in jars, but you are saying this is a scroll made out of metal. Is that rare?

Jim Barfield: Very rare.

Nathan Jones: Very rare.

Jim Barfield: Not only in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but anywhere.

Dr. Reagan: And what does it indicate to you that it was done on metal?

Jim Barfield: Why it was done on metal? They wanted it to last for millennium. That’s why. They wanted it to last for a long time, and they didn’t want to lose that information.

Dr. Reagan: They didn’t want it lost, or deteriorate, or rot.

Nathan Jones: So, whatever is on it is super important.

Jim Barfield: Oh, it is. Oh, gosh, yeah. They did backwards, they had to write the thing backwards, and under pressure.

Nathan Jones: Wrote it backwards, what do you mean?

Jim Barfield: Meaning they had to write, Hebrew is right to left, they had to write it left to right because they were impressing it into the copper so that when you flip it over.

Nathan Jones: What did they use, like a mallet?

Jim Barfield: That’s what I believe a little mallet, and a stylus and you just tapped it in there. And you can see where they made mistakes.

Nathan Jones: They wrote it backwards.

Dr. Reagan: This scroll was in two parts rolled up very tightly.

Jim Barfield: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: How in the world did they ever get it unrolled without destroying it?

Jim Barfield: Actually, it was in three parts.

Nathan Jones: Three parts.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, there were three different sheets of copper. And they couldn’t get it to unroll because it was so fragile. It was green of course from the patina. And the years had rotted away a small portion of it. But they had to take The Copper Scroll, they took it to Manchester, England, and a gentleman there used an old dental tool, it was one of those like they use nowadays to reach the drill down into your mouth.

Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah, and drilled across.

Jim Barfield: Well, these were pulleys and ropes, and you know pulled it through that.

Dr. Reagan: And cut it into strips?

Jim Barfield: And they cut it into strips about so wide, so that they could take each one off, lay it to the side.

Dr. Reagan: And when you lay it all out what size is it?

Jim Barfield: If you put it end to end the whole thing is seven feet long, a little over seven feet long, and one foot wide.

Dr. Reagan: Wow.

Jim Barfield: And it’s got some amazing information on it.

Nathan Jones: Who are the guys that made it?

Jim Barfield: Well, I tell you what, I can tell you what two of them who they were, and you’ll know who they are Haggai and Zechariah the prophets.

Nathan Jones: Okay, the post-exilic prophets.

Jim Barfield: Yes.

Nathan Jones: Back from Babylon and help restore the temple.

Jim Barfield: Yes, that is it exactly. And I believe they were young boys when they wrote this copper scroll, because it looks like they used crayons on it in some places.

Dr. Reagan: Well knowing what I do about Israel, and about particularly archaeologists and the control of archaeology in that land. I would imagine that when you showed up over there they would completely dismiss you as nothing in the world but a crazy treasure hunter.

Jim Barfield: Exactly.

Nathan Jones: They probably get a lot of those too.

Jim Barfield: They do. A lot of them.

Dr. Reagan: How did you get past that barrier?

Jim Barfield: Well, I met a lady in Lawton, Oklahoma, she was a number two in charge of the Comanche Nation College, a little Comanche lady, wonderful lady. She knew the head of the Antiquity Authority. She called him up and said, “You need to listen to this guy.”

Dr. Reagan: Now that had to be a God-incident.

Jim Barfield: It was. There is no doubt about it. And two weeks later I’m in Israel.

Dr. Reagan: But even so I’m sure they were looking at you like, you know.

Jim Barfield: He did. Yeah, he did, we sat, I sat down to show it to him. And I laid it on the table in front of him. And he’s– you’ve got to picture this when I told him it was the Copper Scroll. He just went, huh, he was a gentleman, but he was frustrated. And I began to show him. I showed him the first location. He leaned forward. Second. He got up a little further. Third he pulled the book up close to him. And the fourth one he stopped me. He said, “Mr. Barfield, stop.” He reaches in his phone–for his phone is in his briefcase, pulls it out and he calls back to the office and sets up a meeting with the two top guys over the West Bank, Yuval Peleg, and Yizhak Magen. They met me about four days later at the Rockefeller Museum, and they were interested.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, now, it mentions in the book here that you broke the code of this thing. What did that mean?

Jim Barfield: Really, breaking code is nothing more than I learned how to understand it.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, so it had already been translated, in fact several translations.

Jim Barfield: There were lots of translations of it.

Dr. Reagan: Did you do your own translation?

Jim Barfield: Mines really not a translation because you know how I figured it out? Strong’s Concordance.

Nathan Jones: Oh.

Jim Barfield: I just took the Hebrew words out of the Strong’s Concordance, and when I found it on The Copper Scroll I got the meaning, and I wrote it down. Got the meaning, wrote it down, until I formed a complete sentence.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, they had this thing. They’ve had the translation. But what was your breakthrough? What was it that caught their attention when you came with it?

Jim Barfield: Oh, when they saw my research.

Dr. Reagan: Alright.

Jim Barfield: I’m telling you by the time you get to the fourth location every single one of the major people in Israel that saw my research, when I get to the fourth location they just go, “Oh, my gosh, this is so simple.”

Dr. Reagan: Well, had they not taken these locations seriously?

Jim Barfield: They did. But do you know what they thought? I followed the instructions. My wife laughs at me every time I tell this story.

Dr. Reagan: Men don’t often do that.

Jim Barfield: Because I never follow the instructions.

Nathan Jones: Amen to that.

Jim Barfield: You give me a swing set. I don’t need instructions.

Nathan Jones: No, there’s always some parts left over too.

Jim Barfield: Yeah. A lot of parts. But in this case I followed the instructions. And it said, “Under the ruins in the Valley of Achor.” I said, “Okay. I’ll find a set of ruins.” I know where the Valley of Achor is at. And I knew Qumran because I had been studying the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, now tell us about how the breakthrough with you that came when you were studying a map of Jerusalem, and how you applied that to Qumran.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, that was fascinating.

Jim Barfield: That was a God day. Because I was looking for a map of Jerusalem at the time of Jeremiah.

Dr. Reagan: Okay.

Jim Barfield: Because I needed more information because I knew that was the period. Well, when I found the map and it was on-line, of course, because that is where you find everything. I found the map and I looked at the thing and I thought, “Why did they draw Qumran upside down? And why do they have Jerusalem written underneath it?”

Dr. Reagan: So, you saw that immediately?

Jim Barfield: Immediately. And I thought, “Oh, my goodness.” So, I got a picture of Qumran and I rotated it 180 degrees, and they were a match.

Nathan Jones: Wow! So, they laid out, the Essenes who founded it, laid out Qumran to look like Jerusalem.

Jim Barfield: Yes, to look like Jerusalem. And I’m telling you now they weren’t just Essenes. Matter of fact they were never were called Essenes back then.

Nathan Jones: The Way, right?

Jim Barfield: The Way. The Poor. The Sons of Light. You ever heard of these things before? Yeah, well, that’s what they called themselves. And those men were the prophets. I’m telling you they were the prophets of Israel.

Nathan Jones: The biblical prophets?

Jim Barfield: Yes, the biblical prophets of Israel.

Nathan Jones: They would go out there in the desert.

Jim Barfield: No, they lived in the desert. Where did all of the prophets come from whenever they were going to Jerusalem to chew out the priesthood there? The wilderness.

Dr. Reagan: Were you finally able to convince the authorities there in Israel that you weren’t just treasure hunters?

Jim Barfield: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Once they saw my research they realized that, hey, this guy knows what he’s talking about.

Dr. Reagan: Now, when we were having dinner together I asked you: Why in the world is there so much reluctance on the part of the Israelis to do the digs and find these treasures? And you pointed out something to me that is very interesting.

Jim Barfield: It’s really not reluctance. It’s protection of the items. There’s the Oslo Accords. There are stipulations in there if something if found in the West Bank there is a debate who it is going to belong to: Palestinians or–

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, these are temple treasures and they could go to the Palestinians. They could go to the Jordanians, they could go to the Egyptians.

Jim Barfield: Egyptians, yeah, but that is not going to happen. I’ve got a God that says otherwise.

Dr. Reagan: So, they prefer to leave it.

Nathan Jones: Underground.

Jim Barfield: In the ground until the right time.

Nathan Jones: Now, did I hear that even metal detectors are illegal when you go out–?

Jim Barfield: Oh, my goodness, yeah. You don’t want to take a metal detector over there and get caught with it.

Nathan Jones: Because I saw a video of you actually going around with one. So, I was wondering how you got one and could prove that these treasures are under the dirt?

Jim Barfield: What happened was I was asked to go to New York City to meet a gentlemen by the name of Moshe Feiglin. Moshe Feiglin immediately believed in what I was doing. He saw, I was showing him my research, got the fourth one and he was just, “Why are you not diggng?”

Dr. Reagan: Significant guy.

Jim Barfield: That’s what he said, “Why are you not digging?” I said, “I can’t. Your government is stopping me.” And he said, “What?” He said, “When are you going to be in Israel again?” I said, “One month.” He said, “Call me. We’ll go do it.” He said, “I’ll do it under my authority.”

Dr. Reagan: He’s a member of Parliament.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset.

Dr. Reagan: So, he had immunity.

Jim Barfield: He had immunity from any arrest. And there is a story behind that, but.

Dr. Reagan: Well let me tell you what, let’s take a break here, and when we come back I want to talk about your search for these thing. Okay?

Part 2

Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Jim Barfield, an arson investigator from Oklahoma who became interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and ended up becoming one of the world’s foremost experts on the mysterious Copper Scroll, called that because it is the only one of the Dead Sea Scrolls that is inscribed on copper. Well, Jim, please tell us, I want to know how did you journey on this begin?

Jim Barfield: It began in February of 2007. After I figured out I knew how to understand The Copper Scroll, I wanted to go to Jerusalem and to Israel and check out my theories. And we hopped on a jet with a backpack each, me and my wife, and we wound up in the Jaffa Gate Hostel the first night.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, boy.

Jim Barfield: Guys, that was an experience and adventure all unto itself. As a fire marshal, code enforcement is nonexistent in the Old City.

Nathan Jones: You must have a really good wife.

Jim Barfield: She is wonderful. She has been with me for 41 years. And she is incredibly supportive of this project. So, yeah, and that’s when it started was February of 2007.

Nathan Jones: And you were there to do what?

Jim Barfield: To check my research against the actual ruins of Qumran.

Nathan Jones: Okay, so, you did go to Qumran?

Jim Barfield: Oh, yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. I would have walked there if I had to.

Nathan Jones: It’s hot. Very hot.

Jim Barfield: Well, at the time it was pretty cool, February.

Nathan Jones: Okay, that was smart.

Jim Barfield: So, we got there. I pulled out my research, and at that time I only had about 12 of them figured out. And every one of them.

Dr. Reagan: By them you’re talking about the burial sites?

Jim Barfield: The burial sites, thank you, the burial sites of the Copper Scroll.

Nathan Jones: The Copper Scroll lists 12?

Jim Barfield: No, the Copper Scroll lists 57, but I’d only had 12 of them figured out. So, I’m over there looking and all of them matched up with the features, and the buildings of Qumran perfectly.

Nathan Jones: I saw a map where actually you laid out the 12, and was it in a straight line?

Jim Barfield: The first three were in a perfectly straight line with the cave, the most important location of all, the cave where some very important biblical items are buried.

Nathan Jones: Now, you started digging in that cave right?

Jim Barfield: We did. We did in 2009, we started digging.

Nathan Jones: What happened?

Jim Barfield: We planned to go down two meters. We went down about three feet and the archaeologist got a phone call. Now, you’ve got to picture this, they were doing all of this on their money. They liked my research so much that they did it, they provided the excavators, everything. And all I had to do was point. Let’s dig here, dig here. Let’s dig there.

Nathan Jones: Wow.

Jim Barfield: And they were digging at the most important place, and we got a phone call, and everything stopped. He went off by himself. He looked around. I could tell his countenance changed. He was really excited, and joyful. They walked off. He came back, he said, “Well, let’s dig a little bit more and this is good enough.” I said, “Yuval.”

Nathan Jones: Good enough?

Jim Barfield: “We only went three feet, and you said we were going to go at least six feet, two meters.” And he said, “Well, this is deep enough.” He got a phone call, and I’d rather not say who it was, but there was a group here in the United States that were angry about a fireman from Lawton, Oklahoma digging at Qumran. When they couldn’t get a permit. You know.

Dr. Reagan: So, these were American archaeologists?

Jim Barfield: Well, yeah, they were American archaeologists.

Nathan Jones: So, rather than pursue archaeology they’d rather shut you down?

Jim Barfield: Yeah, because I don’t have a PhD.

Dr. Reagan: You have to understand the world of archaeology.

Jim Barfield: Oh, my gosh.

Nathan Jones: I read all the Amelia Peabody books, that’s in there.

Jim Barfield: Cut-throat.

Dr. Reagan: I decided a long time ago that there’s nobody in the world meaner than archaeologists, for the way they go at each other. Attack each other. Jealously. Incredible jealously.

Jim Barfield: Incredible jealously, you’re right.

Dr. Reagan: It is just unbelievable.

Jim Barfield: And they did. They shut it down.

Nathan Jones: Well, did they go back and dig it up themselves?

Jim Barfield: No.

Nathan Jones: It’s still?

Jim Barfield: No, it’s still, everything is exactly as we left it in 2009. They just–they want to protect this stuff. It’s under the Oslo Accords, you know anything found could be divided up between the Israelis, or between the–and the Israelis don’t want that. They want these things to remain intact. This is their history. It comes from the heart of their history.

Nathan Jones: Well, what kind of treasures are we talking about? You said there were 50, how many again?

Jim Barfield: Fifty-seven.

Nathan Jones: Fifty-seven treasures, are we talking like the Ark of the Covenant? What are we talking about?

Jim Barfield: Well, let’s talk about the ones that are within the other ruins. There is one of them that shows 900 talents of gold. Do you know how much that is in today’s money?

Nathan Jones: A talent was a year’s salary wasn’t it?

Jim Barfield: A talent, no that is way more than that, a talent is way more. Each talent it worth a million dollars, minimum.

Nathan Jones: Wow. In today’s money.

Jim Barfield: Yeah. The actual gold that is buried there, if it is 75 pounds like we think it is, we’re talking one billion dollars minimum. In one location.

Nathan Jones: Buried in just one location.

Jim Barfield: And remember there are 57.

Dr. Reagan: That is one location. What are some of the other objects?

Jim Barfield: You ever heard of the ephod?

Nathan Jones: What the high priest wore, right?

Jim Barfield: Yeah, the breastplate, in that cave that I was telling you about. Location number 1, number 2, number 3, remember are in a straight line. Well, that cave, and the number location 3 it says that ephod is in that cave. And not only that, when you go to the last five of The Copper Scroll, now listen to this, the last five 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 is also the cave. And they said the treasures of the house, the wealth of the house is in that cave. What house do they think they’re talking about?

Dr. Reagan: The Temple.

Jim Barfield: The Beit Hamikdash, the house, the holy place is inside of that cave.

Nathan Jones: Well, how come the Temple Institute who wants to rebuild and make the Third Temple not want that ephod.

Jim Barfield: Oh, they do. They want it bad.

Nathan Jones: They are even kept from it, okay.

Jim Barfield: Matter of fact I tried to communicate with them and some others in Israel, because those items have got to be protected. And those Jewish guys, those Rabbis, they want to protect it with all their heart, they want to protect these things.

Nathan Jones: I’m curious there is one part that is missing for me. If these are First Temple artifacts why weren’t they not dug up and put in the Second Temple.

Jim Barfield: Very good reason. The Second Temple was good, actually the Second Temple was Zerubbabel’s Temple. Third Temple was Herod’s Temple. They were not going to dig them up until the heart of Israel was right. I’m telling, they want to make sure that these things are used properly.

Dr. Reagan: By the same token they did not have the Ark of the Covenant in the Second Temple.

Jim Barfield: No, they did not have it in the Second Temple.

Dr. Reagan: Because it was under Roman control during most of that time, and they didn’t want it.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, the Romans, the High Priest at the time of Jesus he was a plant, he was a bought and paid for position. An Edomite, it was supposed to be Levites, from the tribe of Aaron, you know Aaronic Blessings that sort of thing. Well, that’s who was supposed to be in charge, but it wasn’t.

Dr. Reagan: Now, you talked about your original excavation there and how it was interrupted. But you’ve done things since then. Tell us about the scans you did.

Jim Barfield: In 2014 a gentleman by the name of Moshe Feiglin meets me at Qumran.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, he is a member of the Knesset.

Jim Barfield: He was a member of the Knesset. He was the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, which is the Parliament for Israel. So, when I say Knesset think Parliament. He talked to me, and he planned to go out there to Qumran with me, and he did. A month later I’m getting out of my car, he’s getting out of his car, he’s got a limousine with his entourage with him and we start walking up to Qumran to do the scan. And I ask him, I said, “Are you sure this is okay?” He said, “No.”

Nathan Jones: No.

Jim Barfield: I looked at my buddy Chris Knight, and I–

Dr. Reagan: He has immunity though. You don’t have it.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, and you know what he told me? I said, “Well, do you have an attorney?” He said, “Yes, I’ve got an attorney.” I said, “But will he protect me?” He said, “No.” I said, “I’m on my own here.” So, my wife and my youngest son stayed in the parking lot. I said, “You are going to have to get me out of jail if this happens.”

Nathan Jones: So, you are doing all these scans while there are tourists running around?

Jim Barfield: Oh, yes, tourists, and the guard at Qumran came up to us. And he was saying, “What are you doing?” And Moshe said, “Let me handle it.” So, he starts talking to him in Hebrew and the guy is listening. He calls down to the front desk, yeah to the main guy, but I knew the director of Qumran he and I were buds. And he said, “Come along.”

Nathan Jones: Oh, okay.

Jim Barfield: So, we got to scan. And we scanned four locations. And all four locations showed massive quantities of non-ferrous metals, meaning brass, copper, silver, massive quantities.

Dr. Reagan: And you were using a pretty powerful scan weren’t you?

Jim Barfield: Yeah, the detector penetrates down to 50 feet minimum.

Nathan Jones: That’s amazing because when you go to Qumran, and it’s by the Dead Sea so there is nothing, it is just empty. And to think that all of these treasures potentially are under all that useless sand and tourism.

Jim Barfield: Under the feet of hundreds, and hundreds of tourists just about every day.

Nathan Jones: Wow.

Jim Barfield: And they have no clue.

Dr. Reagan: Well, what is next on your agenda?

Jim Barfield: The next thing is we are waiting on the election to get over with.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, yeah.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, they got it with Benny Gantz and Benjamin Netanyahu, just a couple days ago they handed over the process for structuring the government to Benny Gantz.

Nathan Jones: As of November 2019.

Jim Barfield: Netanyahu couldn’t do it. He couldn’t get it pulled together. Which I was pulling for him, because of two reasons. One Moshe Feiglin was now and would have been within a high position within the Parliament, within the Knesset. And Netanyahu had just announced that he was going to annex the Jordan Valley, and a portion of land.

Dr. Reagan: That’s important.

Jim Barfield: And it is even more important, well, not sure if it was more important–

Nathan Jones: Because then they’ll have control over the land and can dig.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, because Qumran sits there.

Dr. Reagan: Plus, whatever comes out of the ground.

Jim Barfield: That’s it. Because of the Oslo Accords now it’s all Israel, and it surrounds Qumran. Perfect timing. Because if we get to do an excavation now, no one can say, “Well that’s ours.” I bet you there going to, but they can’t say this is ours, because then it is under Israeli control. That’s what our holdup is right now.

Dr. Reagan: How have you been able to finance all of this?

Jim Barfield: We initially, we asked for funding, and we got a nice, just exactly what we needed. And then–

Dr. Reagan: From whom? The government of Israel, or what?

Jim Barfield: No, from people like us.

Nathan Jones: Oh, donors.

Jim Barfield: Just donors. Just guys. Grandma’s and Grandpa’s and that’s how we got our funding. But I don’t like to ask for money. And this gentleman, I’m not going to say his name, but he’s a rancher, and he told me, said “Jim,” he said, “whatever you need you let me know.” He said, “We’ll take care of it.” That’s how we funded this.

Dr. Reagan: Well, you’ve certainly been very frugal if you’re going over there and staying in hostels.

Jim Barfield: Hostels. Yeah we’ve stayed in Zion Square.

Dr. Reagan: In fact, you told me that to date you’ve only spent like $150,000.

Jim Barfield: Yeah, maybe plus or minus $20,000. But yeah, we’ve been eating on Ben Yehuda Street. Eating falafels out in the open.

Nathan Jones: Not living on Ramen Noodles?

Jim Barfield: No, we didn’t have any, or we would have been eating on them. We had people. We’ve been blessed. People have given us the keys to their homes and allowed us to stay in Israel. And they were beautiful homes. Just wonderful people. And that is a blessing from God.

Dr. Reagan: Well, it sounds like the Lord has been blessing you.

Jim Barfield: Very much so.

Dr. Reagan: Well, okay. Well, let’s take another break, and when we come back we’ll tell people how to get in touch with you. Okay.

Closing

Nathan Jones: Jim it’s been a very fascinating interview. Thank you so much. I’m sure people want to know more about what you are doing and how they can get in touch with you. So, if you could look into that camera there and let them know how they can get in contact with you.

Jim Barfield: I will thank you. If you do want to get in contact with me the best way is to go through my website: The Copper Scroll Project, put that into any search engine and we will be at the top of that search engine. You’ll find information about The Copper Scroll. You’ll find out some of the information, a few details, but we’re trying to keep that mostly secret for right now.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, can they contact you through the website?

Jim Barfield: Yes, if they want me to come do some speaking, they can contact me through the website and I’ll be happy to do that.

Dr. Reagan: Well, folks, that’s our program for this week. And I hope it has been a blessing to you. And I hope the Lord willing you’ll be back with us next week. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near.”

End of Program

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