What would you identify as the fundamentals of Bible Prophecy? Find out with guest Allan Walker on the show Christ in Prophecy.
Last aired on June 22, 2014.
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Dr. Reagan: What would you identify as the fundamentals of Bible prophecy? Our special guest on our program today has been traveling throughout America for over 20 years teaching what he calls “Bible Prophecy 101,” or “The Fundamentals of Bible Prophecy.” For a fascinating interview, stay tuned.
Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Nathan Jones and I have as our special guest this week a Bible prophecy expert who has been traveling around our nation for 20 years teaching what he calls, “Bible Prophecy 101.” His name is Allan Walker, he’s from Nowata, Oklahoma, and he heads up a ministry called Allan Walker Ministries. Allan, welcome to Christ in Prophecy.
Allan Walker: Thank you, Dave, it is a joy to be with you.
Nathan Jones: Allan.
Allan Walker: Good to see you today.
Nathan Jones: You too, you too. Now he said 20 years, you’ve been preaching for 20 years. And from what I understand you run a ministry or are part of a ministry all week long and then on weekends you teach Bible prophecy. You sound very busy.
Allan Walker: Yes sir. I work full-time at The Voice of the Martyrs, my wife and I do. We have a newsletter that goes out to 500,000 people calling attention to the persecuted church throughout the 10/40 window.
Dr. Reagan: So you’re primarily then involved in ministering to people who are being persecuted for the sake of Jesus Christ?
Allan Walker: Yes, sir.
Dr. Reagan: All over the world.
Allan Walker: Well, primarily throughout the 10/40 window, about 64 countries.
Dr. Reagan: So that must be a lot of Muslim countries.
Allan Walker: Yes, Islamic countries, communist countries, Buddhist and Hindu countries.
Dr. Reagan: Well, that is amazing. Well, tell us Allan you have been going around talking about Bible Prophecy 101. What in the world do you mean by Bible Prophecy 101?
Allan Walker: Well, Dave, there is a need to get the main people and events of Scripture in chronological order and get a working knowledge of the whole council of the Word of God. And I’ve capsulized God’s plan into a couple of brief presentations that give a good overview of the main people and events of Scripture helping to get an overall understanding of the Word of God.
Dr. Reagan: You know I love that Allan because so often people get so bogged down in the details. Like in the book of Revelation they’re obsessed with what does 666 mean? Or who are the 144,000? And they very seldom get the overview, the big overview. And I love it when somebody says, “Well let’s get the big picture.” And that’s basically what you’ve been teaching is the big picture, right?
Allan Walker: Yes. History is divided into seven time periods or dispensations. There are five of those time periods in the Old Testament leading up to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We’re in time period number six which will close with the events of the end of the age. And then time period seven is when our Lord Jesus Christ rules and reigns on the earth. And those time periods give a grand overview or panorama of the Word of God.
Dr. Reagan: And in addition to that you also talk about signs of the times, don’t you?
Allan Walker: Yes, current events in Bible prophecy. This generation is seeing more prophecy fulfilled than has ever been fulfilled in history.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, well let’s just pause here for a moment and when we come back let’s focus on the first part of your presentations, “God’s Plan for the Ages.”
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to our interview of Allan Walker, an expert on Bible prophecy. Allan you have “Bible Prophecy 101,” which I think is a great title. And it is divided into two parts the first part is God’s Plan for the Ages, can you tell us a little about what that means?
Allan Walker: God has an overview, a plan from Genesis to Revelation divided into seven dispensations or time periods.
Nathan Jones: Ok.
Allan Walker: There are five of these dispensations in the Old Testament leading up to the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God. Innocence is the first time period where Adam and Eve were in the Garden. Then they fell, then conscience followed after that, 1,656 years.
Nathan Jones: You mean conscience, they lived by conscience?
Allan Walker: They were to live by conscience, they violated that they were to do blood sacrifices, they failed to do that. And each one of these dispensations man has been given a specific responsibility from God. He has broken that commandment, sinned against God and that brought judgment in every time period. But salvation was offered by grace, through faith in every dispensation.
Nathan Jones: What was the third one then?
Allan Walker: Innocence, conscience, human government. God instituted human government.
Dr. Reagan: That was after the Flood, right?
Allan Walker: Yes, sir. Went up to the Tower of Babel. And then promise began with the call of Abraham. Now actually from Genesis 1-11 God deals with the human race as a whole. Beginning with the call of Abraham that is a major turning point in the plan of God and the beginning of God’s dealing with the Jews. Romans 9, 10, and 11 in the New Testament deal with God’s past, present, and future dealings with the nation of Israel. And then we know that they ended up in Egyptian bondage there. Then the Law was given by Moses some 1,700 years before Christ.
Nathan Jones: That’s the fifth dispensation?
Dr. Reagan: Fifth dispensation?
Allan Walker: Yes, right. Leading up to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Christ fulfilled the Law through His death. And then you and I are living in a special time period called the Age of Grace which follows the First Coming and precedes the Second Coming.
Dr. Reagan: You know I have never liked that term the Age of Grace. I like to call it the Church Age. And the reason I do is because it leaves the impression that there was no grace before that.
Allan Walker: Yeah, right.
Dr. Reagan: And everyone throughout history has been saved by the grace of God.
Allan Walker: From Abel all the way through the Old Testament, absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: But I understand why it is called that.
Allan Walker: Sure, and that is a common saying. But the Age of Grace, the dispensation of Grace, the Church Age, but the Church is special in the plan of God. God had a plan and purpose for the Church and His plan and purpose is being worked out today as the Gospel is being spread among the nations. And God is visiting the Gentiles to call out a people for His name. And then afterward He will come to rule and reign on the earth and He will fulfill the Davidic Covenant. He’ll fulfill the Palestinian Covenant. He’ll fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant. And the covenants deal with the literal fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Prophecy is not symbolic, prophecy is literal and it will be fulfilled literally. Jesus is actually coming back to rule and reign on the Earth. The Devil knows that and that is why there is a conflict stirred up in the world today over the Middle East and who the land belongs to. And the conflict of the ages is coming to a head in our day and time.
Dr. Reagan: When you made the comment that prophecy is not symbolic, what you meant by that is that there are symbolic prophecies but the ultimate fulfillment of all prophecy is literal. I mean it has to be or else you can’t tell whether it is prophecy or not.
Allan Walker: Absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: You must have a literal fulfillment, yes. So that’s quite an overview there of God’s plan. Anything else you want to add to that?
Allan Walker: Well we need an overview of this to get a working knowledge of the Word of God. Some people have focused on one particular segment of the Word of God to the exclusion of all the other. And Scofield in his writings said the reason people give up on the Word of God is because they don’t understand how all these various pieces fit together.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, we also need it to know where we are.
Allan Walker: Absolutely.
Nathan Jones: Well we get e-mails all the time with people saying, “Well how are people saved in the Old Testament?” And dispensationalism kind of explains that, right? That God had difference systems of government, and different systems of bringing people to Him toward salvation. For instance the Mosaic Law, I mean people were saved before the Mosaic Law. People were saved before Jesus died on the cross. How does salvation play into each of those?
Allan Walker: Well we started out with Abel right there in the book of Genesis. By faith Abel offered onto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts and by it being dead yet speaks. And we all know that Abel brought a blood sacrifice. Cain brought the fruit of the ground and the first person of faith produced a martyr, the first religious person produced a murderer. Down through the centuries religion has been intolerant of those who took God’s plan of salvation by grace through faith and followed the blood covenant. An ocean of human blood has been shed through the centuries over these issues.
Dr. Reagan: One point I’d like to make very clearly is that when we talk about people saved in Old Testament times we’re really talking about a partial salvation because their sins were covered by their faith but their sins were not forgiven. Their sins were not forgiven until the perfect sacrifice was offered on the cross. In fact in Old Testament times when they died they didn’t go to Heaven, they went to a place called Hades to a compartment called Paradise. But when Jesus died on the cross their sins were not only covered, their sins were forgiven and then when He went to Heaven He took them with Him. Today when we accept Jesus our sins are not only covered, they are forgiven immediately. And when we die we go directly to Heaven. So the sacrifice of Jesus is central to all this.
Allan Walker: Well Scripture bears out that we live under a much better covenant than they did in the Old Testament that was just a type or a shadow. We live in the reality of that, we are new creations in Christ, washed in His blood, indwelt by His Spirit, sons and daughters of God.
Dr. Reagan: Now Allan, you have a wonderful chart that’s called, God’s Map?
Allan Walker: Bible Map.
Dr. Reagan: Bible Map and it is simple, it’s easy to understand and people can get it free of charge through your website, and we’ll tell them at the end of the program how to do that. But the chart is really wonderful and I recommend it to people because it is so simple to understand. But this chart was originally developed by a man named Leon Bates, right? Tell us about Leon.
Allan Walker: Yes, Leon Bates is about 80 years old now and he’s turned the Bible Believers Evangelistic Association over to a younger couple who are running it now. Leon was one of the pioneers among Pre-millennialism.
Dr. Reagan: That’s right.
Allan Walker: And he helped, his charts were used in the movies that came out in the 1970’s about Bible prophecy. And millions of copies of the Bible Map have been translated in various languages. And it– I first found that Bible Map in 1974 and it changed my life by helping me to see that there was a systematic plan to the Word of God. And Leon’s teaching of the Bible Map just helped me correlate the main people and events of Scripture and get a working knowledge of the whole counsel of God’s Word.
Dr. Reagan: You go back to the beginning of the 20th Century when that Scofield Bible you have in your hands came out from a pastor here in Dallas by the name of Scofield who presented the Study Bible and it was published by the Oxford Press of all things. At that same time there was a man named Clarence Larkin who had these incredible illustrations of Scripture that were just fantastic you can still get them today. But there seemed to be a gap between Larkin and Leon Bates who came out what in the 50’s, 40’s 50’s?
Allan Walker: 1972 or ’73 there about.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, so that big a gap. Of a man who realized that importance of visual aids and once again began to use visual aids to teach about God’s plan for the ages and also about the Rapture of the Church. The very first pamphlet I ever ran across about the Rapture of the Church was one by Leon Bates. I had been going to church for 35 years, every time the door was open, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, Vacation Bible School, Gospel meetings and never once had I ever heard the word Rapture. If you’d ask me what the Rapture was after going to church for 35 years I’d say it was a sensation you feel when you’re girlfriend kisses you. You know that is all I knew about the Rapture. And yet I ran across this little pamphlet and I thought, “What in the world is this guy crazy? Some sort of a nut? I mean is this some sort of cultic group?” And then I started studying the Bible and found out it is all through the New Testament there. And it was Leon Bates.
Allan Walker: Scripture talks about line upon line, precept upon precept. And I like to liken Bible prophecy to a giant jig-saw puzzle. If you get your jig-saw puzzle put together and you still got pieces missing you’ve got something out of place. But when you get the main people and events, you get Jew, Gentile and Church laid out. You get Church and Kingdom laid out. You get Law and Grace laid out.
Dr. Reagan: And you don’t get into nonsense like Replacement Theology that says the Church has replaced Israel and God has no purpose left for the Jewish people.
Allan Walker: Absolutely, Romans 9, 10 and 11 make it very clear that God has a permanent plan for the nation of Israel, and the Devil is well aware of that. There is great conflict stirred up in the Church and in the world over these very issues. And these are fundamental to an understanding of the Word of God.
Nathan Jones: Oh, it is so important to have the 30,000 mile view where you look down and you see all of God’s plan all in one shot. We get so down here. But to see that when we started man walked with God. And as you go through each dispensation God reveals a little more, and a little more about Himself to the point where we are in Christ in the Millennial Kingdom, but in the eternal state we are back walking with God again, we’ve gone full circle.
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to our interview with Bible Prophecy expert Allan Walker.
Dr. Reagan: Allan you said that your course involves really two aspects, one is God’s plan for the ages, and the other the signs of the times, that is Bible Prophecy 101 and I would say amen to that. What do you talk about with regard to the signs of the times? What does that term mean first of all? And then give us some examples.
Allan Walker: Well, Dave, in our day and time there is a specific pattern of events that came about in the generation following World War II that marks this generation as different from any other generation in history. The center piece of signs of the times is that Israel is back in her land and in possession of Jerusalem. And then the nations are aligning themselves just as Bible prophecy said that they would in the last days.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, so what you’re saying there then is that the signs of the times refers to prophecies in the Bible that say that certain things are going to exist in the world at the time that Jesus Christ returns. And you are saying that those things are all converging today and coming together. So give us some examples.
Allan Walker: Israel and the nations are lined up just like the Scripture said that they would be. Then we have the technology today to fulfill many of the prophecies that are talked about in the Word of God. Scripture speaks of a man’s flesh melting off of his skeleton while he stands on his feet. We believe nuclear weapons can make that happen. Hundred pound hailstones can fall because of nuclear weapons. And many of the old timers looked at that and they thought God may sovereignly reign those down, but man’s technology can bring these about. We have today through global satellite television it’s possible to preach the Gospel to the whole world. The Scripture says the Gospel will be preached among the nations for a witness and then the end will come. It’s possible to number and track the buying and selling of all man everywhere.
Dr. Reagan: Yes, through computer technology and all.
Allan Walker: Yes, sir.
Nathan Jones: Dr. Reagan you divided the signs of the times in your articles and books into six categories right?
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, you know there are so many in both the Old Testament and New Testament. People mainly think of the New Testament. The Old Testament has many, many signs that we are to watch for. And I put them into six categories; the signs of nature, the signs of society, spiritual signs which are the most both negative and positive spiritual signs. The signs of technology which you just mentioned. The signs of Israel which are the most important of all because that is where you started because Israel in the cornerstone of end time Bible prophecy, everything focuses on Israel. The people brought back into the land, state re-established, the world coming together against them. So we’re seeing all these things happen for the first time, yes. Convergence, very important point here, everything is coming together. In the past some people have said, “Well you know this is happening, or that is happening.” But we didn’t have the Roman Empire revived. We didn’t have the technology, for example Nathan you are our techno-nerd around here.
Nathan Jones: Hey, wait a minute. No name calling please.
Dr. Reagan: Talk about being able to see the two witnesses lying in the streets of Jerusalem.
Nathan Jones: Well that has been one of the things when you read about the two witnesses that will be in Jerusalem during the Tribulation, the first 3 ½ years they preach the Gospel in Jerusalem. The Antichrist kills them at the mid-point, they die, they are left on the streets and then they are resurrected three days later. And it says the whole world will watch and rejoice over it as well as witness the resurrection. And for many, many centuries people were like, “How could the whole world watch this event; it is an impossibility?” Until we had the technology in place today with satellites, cellphones, computers, television, cable you name it the whole world now can watch an event. We can watch a soccer game all together, all over the entire world through technology. And technology today provides, like you said nuclear weapons we have the ability to annihilate ourselves like some of the judgments that are in the Tribulation. There are all sorts of signs of technology that show that we couldn’t explain in the Bible but we are like, “oh.”
Dr. Reagan: That’s right. And you know the first Sputnik, the first satellite put up was the Russian Sputnik in ’59 but it wasn’t until mid to late 60’s that we really had the technology to put up the satellites that we have today. The communication satellites, the spy satellites, the television satellites, all that sort of thing. And now we– you know before 1965 people could not explain how you are going to look at those two bodies. Today we don’t even stop and think about that, I mean everybody understands that and moves right on.
Nathan Jones: Well like the armies that come from the east at the end of the Tribulation the eastern kings rebel against the Antichrist, they come and they have Armageddon. And it says that their number when they die it fills up the Valley of Jezreel, the Valley of Armageddon up to the horses bridle there is so much blood. How do you field an army of that magnitude unless you had the populations like we have today?
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, it says an army of 200 million, there weren’t even 200 million people on planet earth when he wrote that prophecy. So there was no way he could understand it.
Nathan Jones: No, not at all.
Dr. Reagan: But we could understand it without any problem whatsoever. I think that– you know Daniel was mystified by some of the prophecies that God gave him. And he said, “Lord I don’t understand this,” in chapter 12 of Daniel. God says, “It’s not for you to understand, it is for you to write them down. It will be understood when the time comes for them to be understood.” So the very fact that we are understanding prophecies today that we’ve never understood in history to me is an illustration of the fact that we are living in the season of the Lord’s Return.
Allan Walker: We mention that the satellite broadcast are going forth and the Gospel is going out to the nations. More Jews and more Muslims have come to Christ in the last 20 to 30 years than any other time in history. And at the same time God is sovereignly moving all over the world to bring many to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a sinking apostasy coming into the organized Church.
Nathan Jones: Spiritual signs we were talking about.
Allan Walker: And a radical departure from the fundamental doctrines of the Word of God.
Dr. Reagan: Which is one of the signs of the times. It is clearly prophesized in the end times the Church will just simply be consumed by apostasy. People who claim– we have evangelicals today who are denying the virgin birth, denying the resurrection and they call themselves evangelicals.
Allan Walker: Fifty-seven percent of today’s evangelicals say there are other ways to Heaven other than through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Dr. Reagan: That shows a famine of the Word.
Allan Walker: Absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: People just don’t know the Word anymore.
Nathan Jones: Yet at the same time– getting back to what you said about evangelism because I’m the Web Minister so I speak to people all over the world. You share a newsletter that touches Muslims all over the world. I mean we have a communication piece today, the Internet that was unlike any evangelism tool in history where you and I can reach people we never could physically and share the Gospel with them. That to me is a huge sign of the end times because God has given us every tool possible to reach every person as possible before He comes back.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when we didn’t have any of these things. I can remember when there was no television.
Nathan Jones: Oh, ok.
Dr. Reagan: I’m that old. I can remember when I had a trustee in the early 90’s just bugging me to death about the Internet and I thought, “Internet what in the world is an Internet. I mean you go out and catch flies with a net? What are they talking about Internet?” And finally 1995 he said, “The time has come, you’ve got to find out about it.” So one of our staff member and I went to a Holiday Inn and spent the day there and I found out about the Internet. I thought, “You mean I can sit down and type this and somebody gets that message on the other side of the world? I don’t have to pay for a telephone call?” I could hardly wait to get on the Internet. But it’s that new.
Nathan Jones: We are approaching 3 billion people, almost half of the world population accessible by the Internet. There is time like no other where we can share the Gospel.
Dr. Reagan: Absolutely.
Nathan Jones: And God wants us to share the Gospel as much as possible because He’s coming back soon. Obviously that is a huge sign of the times. You can tell I get excited about, and you’re involved with every day.
Allan Walker: Prophecy went on fast forward in the 1990’s, absolutely. And really it’s changing so fast it is difficult for the average person to keep up with the changes as fast as they are happening.
Dr. Reagan: That’s right. And Allan in your study and teaching about the signs of the times over the years what would you personally consider to be the most important sign that we are living in the season of the Lord’s Return?
Allan Walker: Dave, I think the Church and Israel are two of the greatest signs. We’ve already spoken about Israel being restored as a nation, surrounded by hostile Islamic enemies who are intent on wiping Israel off the map. And then the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is being used today to reach multitudes around the world. And God–Tim LaHaye writes about the merciful God of prophecy, how we’ve got almost 7 billion people on planet earth in a day and time when masses are lost. It seems as the Spirit of God is moving to bring many to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and there will be that great multitude which no man can number out of every nation and tongue.
Dr. Reagan: You know you’ve got this Scofield Bible in your hand, when he put that out in 1909 a lot of people attacked him and one of the attacks was his interpretation of Ezekiel 38 & 39 where he talks about Gog and Magog and he says, “In the end times Russia together with certain allies are going to attack Israel.” And people laughed at that, scoffed at that, said, “That is ridiculous.” And you know it was ridiculous in 1909 Israel did not exist, there was no prospect Israel would ever exist. And Russia was a Christian Orthodox nation. And he said, “Hey I don’t understand it. I can’t explain it but the Word says it and therefore I believe it.” And guess what today nobody challenges that, when you say that today they say, “Oh, you’re reading the Bible into current events.” But the Bible said Russia is coming down against Israel in the end times with certain specified allies, and He was right.
Nathan Jones: It’s like watching the news.
Allan Walker: That illustrates that the Bible is to be taken literally not just spiritualized.
Dr. Reagan: I know.
Allan Walker: And all of these events we take a Bible in one hand a newspaper in the other, we compare them and the average person can see that you don’t have to be theologian. You don’t have to be a geo-political analyst to see that current events are moving in the exact direction that the Word of God said it would.
Dr. Reagan: But you have to believe, that God– this Bible really came from God. It’s not just man’s search for God, but it came from God, it’s a revelation of God. And His prophecies really mean what they say. You know Allan all the First Coming prophecies meant exactly what they said.
Allan Walker: Absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: Why shouldn’t the Second Coming prophecies mean what they say? But the problem we have in the Church today is spiritualization. They just spiritualize these prophecies to mean anything they want them to mean. And when you do that you play God because you can make the Scriptures mean anything you want it to mean if you just spiritualize. So I want to underscore your statement, take the prophecies to mean what they say, for their plain sense meaning.
Allan Walker: We don’t read the Word of God, the Word of God reads us.
Dr. Reagan: I like that. Well my favorite expression is, if the plain sense makes sense, don’t look for any other sense or you’ll end up with nonsense. As Henry Morris said in his great commentary on the book of Revelation he started out he said, “People tell me the book of Revelation is hard to understand. That is not true.” He says, “It’s difficult to believe. If you will believe it, you will understand it.” But people play games with it. They just play games with. So I urge our viewers just rely on the Holy Spirit that is within them, if they’ve been born again. Rely on the Holy Spirit, pray that the Holy Spirit will help you to understand God’s Word and the Holy Spirit will help you understand it. There are still things about the book of Revelation I don’t understand but a lot I do, mainly because the Holy Spirit has helped me and I keep praying, “Help me to understand more.”
Allan Walker: If we get the great central themes of the Word of God fixed in our mind all the rest of it will fit together like hand in glove.
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to our interview with Bible prophecy expert Allan Walker. Allan can you tell folks how they can get in touch with your ministry?
Allan Walker: Thank you Nathan. You can contact Allan Walker Ministries on the World Wide Web at awmin.org, again that’s awmin.org.
Nathan Jones: Now they can go to your website and download a PowerPoint of the Bible Map which explains God’s plan for the ages, right?
Allan Walker: Yes, download the free Bible map along with the Scripture references.
Dr. Reagan: And I have seen that PowerPoint it’s wonderful. It give you the overall view and then shows close-up of each section so I hope people will do that. Well Allan you have been a great blessing to us. Thank you for being here with us. Folks, that’s our program for this week. Until next week the Lord willing this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries and for my colleague Nathan Jones saying, “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near.”
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