Dr. David R. Reagan on the show Christ in Prophecy explores the idea of pets going to heaven.
Last aired on April 6, 2008.
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Dr. Reagan: Believe it or not, one of the most frequently asked questions about Heaven is whether or not our pets will be there. For the answer to that question, stay tuned.
Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope! I’m Dave Reagan, founder and director of Lamb & Lion Ministries. Last week we began a discussion of the meaning of Heaven, and the most important point we made is that Heaven is ultimately going to come down to earth, because the eternal abode of the Redeemed is going to be on a new earth where we will live in the presence of God. We considered a number of other questions about Heaven last week, such as whether or not we will have individuality and personality, and whether or not we will know each other. And our answer to both of those questions was a resounding, “Yes!”
This week we want to consider one of the most intriguing and frequently asked questions about Heaven — namely, “Will our pets be in Heaven?” We are going to begin by introducing you to some very special pets, but first, here’s a message about an important new book about Heaven.
Dr. Reagan: Ever since this ministry was established in 1980 I have received at least one or two letters a month asking, “Will our pets be in Heaven?” The messages usually come from a grieving person who has just lost their pet.
Well despite the frequency of the question, I never really paid much attention to it until I received a remarkable letter from a lady in Houston, Texas, named Michelle Shannon. It began with these words: “Our dog, Sable, died last night, May 24, 1998. She was just over nine years old.” What set Michelle’s letter apart is that instead of asking me the usual question, “Will I see my pet in Heaven?” she proceeded to give me some biblical reasons for believing that we will definitely see our pets again in Heaven. Before we consider the points she made, as well as those made by others, like Randy Alcorn, the author of the best-selling book about Heaven, let’s pause for a moment to meet a few very special pets.
Dr. Reagan: My first guest is my beautiful wife Ann and a very special little pet in her lap here. Ann, introduce the viewers to this fellow.
Ann Reagan: This is Samson.
Dr. Reagan: Samson like the Samson in the Old Testament?
Ann Reagan: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: Well now, tell us about Samson. What kind of a dog is he, and how in the world did you, why in the world did you name him Samson?
Ann Reagan: Well, he’s a longhaired, miniature dachshund, and we named him Samson because he has long hair, like the man in the Bible, and he’s very impulsive, like the man in the Bible.
Dr. Reagan: Very imperfect?
Ann Reagan: Impulsive.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, impulsive like Samson!
Ann Reagan: Yes, yes.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I can certainly vouch for that. You know, how old is Samson?
Ann Reagan: Samson will be 13.
Dr. Reagan: Thirteen! That’s getting on up there, that’s probably about 72 years old in human terms, so he is in the geriatric set, correct?
Ann Reagan: That’s true, that’s true.
Dr. Reagan: And how has he changed as he’s grown older?
Ann Reagan: Well, when we first got Samson, he was very selfish, he was very mean to his adopted brother. He always had to come first.
Dr. Reagan: So you had another dog at that time?
Ann Reagan: Yes, we had another dog, Zach – Zaccheus, and he always had to be the first to get to the meal bowl. The first to come in, the first to get a dog treat. He was not a very kind dog at that period of time.
Dr. Reagan: Well did he kind of mellow over the years?
Ann Reagan: He has, he has. Now he’s very laid back, like you say, he’s an older gentleman, and he’s a very devoted companion.
Dr. Reagan: Ann, he’s changed over the years. For example, his face has grown white, which I think is a traditional thing for dogs as they age, right?
Ann Reagan: Right, right.
Dr. Reagan: And, he’s gotten a little hard of hearing?
Ann Reagan: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Like stone deaf?
Ann Reagan: That’s true, that’s true.
Dr. Reagan: But, he still can smell thing. If a bird or a squirrel gets in his yard he knows about it right?
Ann Reagan: True, true.
Dr. Reagan: You said he had a brother who was named Zach. That was kind of short for Zaccheus, right?
Ann Reagan: Uh huh.
Dr. Reagan: I think we’re showing a picture of them right now. The brother was a black shorthaired dachshund and he’s a red longhaired. And the brother was very different in his personality wasn’t he?
Ann Reagan: Yes, yes.
Dr. Reagan: Tell about the brother.
Ann Reagan: He was a very, he was a very gentle dog from the very beginning. He didn’t bark much and he was your dog. He was your devo dog.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Ann Reagan: He sat next to you on the couch while you wrote in your prayer journal.
Dr. Reagan: That’s right, and every morning when I do that I really miss him. He died about two years ago. But they were just as different as night and day. In fact, I used to take them over to your first grade class.
Ann Reagan: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: My wife is a first grade teacher and I used to take her over to the first…the two dogs over to the First Grade class, and we would do a “compare and contrast.” You know, we would ask kids, “Well now, how are these dogs different?” You know, one was shorthaired, one was longhair, one was very hyper, the other was very laid back, and we would talk about what they had in common and how they were different. And I really miss doing that now that you have retired as a teacher.
Ann Reagan: Right, right.
Dr. Reagan: I don’t get to do that anymore, and of course Zach has gone on, so I really don’t have an opportunity to do that much any more. But would you say, based upon your experience with dogs, that they have a very definite personality?
Ann Reagan: Oh yes, oh yes.
Dr. Reagan: Very unique and distinctive personalities.
Ann Reagan: Very, very unique. Right.
Dr. Reagan: And this one has really become sort of a service dog hasn’t he?
Ann Reagan: Yes. We call him our “service dog,” he doesn’t have the proper vest to indicate that he–
Dr. Reagan: Oh, he needs a vest, yes.
Ann Reagan: Right. But, he is a wonderful companion. He’s very devoted. Whatever room I’m in, he’s in, and he’s just been a great comfort to me.
Dr. Reagan: Well as I understand it, medical science has actually shown or proven that if you stroke a dog your blood pressure will go down.
Ann Reagan: My blood pressure is very way down.
Dr. Reagan: So you must have very low blood pressure.
Ann Reagan: Its way down.
Dr. Reagan: Very, very low blood pressure. Well Ann, we’re considering a fundamental question in this program and that question is whether or not we’re going to see our pets in Heaven. What is your attitude about that? What do you think?
Ann Reagan: I think so.
Dr. Reagan: You think so huh?
Ann Reagan: I definitely think so and I surely do hope so.
Dr. Reagan: Well it would be kind of lonely without him wouldn’t it?
Ann Reagan: That’s right, that’s right.
Dr. Reagan: Well, thank you so much for being with us today.
Ann Reagan: Thank you.
Dr. Reagan: And Samson, I’m so glad you behaved yourself.
Ann Reagan: Yes, yes.
Dr. Reagan: Good to see you buddy.
Ann Reagan: He’s a good dog.
Dr. Reagan: Thank you.
Dr. Reagan: My next guest is my daughter Rachel, who usually is behind one of the cameras. She is one of our camera operators. Rachel, how does it feel to be in front of the camera instead of behind it?
Rachel Houck: I like being behind it, but this is good, a good day to show my dog.
Dr. Reagan: Well now, tell us, who do you have here with you today?
Rachel Houck: This is my dog Brown Face, and he is a very special dog in my life, probably my favorite animal that I’ve ever had.
Dr. Reagan: What kind of dog is he?
Rachel Houck: Well, I don’t know, I think he’s probably part shepherd, and, he’s just a mutt though, a mixture.
Dr. Reagan: A mixed breed. And how much does he weigh?
Rachel Houck: Oh, probably about, I’d say maybe 45, 50 pounds.
Dr. Reagan: And do you have any idea how old he is?
Rachel Houck: No, not really because he was a stray when we found him, so–
Dr. Reagan: Well I know you have a real heart for animals because I know that when you were growing up you were always bringing stray ones home, and this happens to be a stray animal.
Rachel Houck: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Tell us the remarkable story of Brown Face.
Rachel Houck: Well, Brown Face was abandoned down the road. Some people moved, and just left him. I don’t know if they moved to an apartment and couldn’t take him with them or–
Dr. Reagan: So, for our viewers, we are living out in the country.
Rachel Houck: Out in the country.
Dr. Reagan: On a gravel road, and down the gravel road about a mile, some people just abandoned him.
Rachel Houck: Right.
Dr. Reagan: They moved out and left him, right?
Rachel Houck: Yes, and that’s how he got his name, because when we would drive by I would say, “Oh did you see that cute brown faced dog?” So that is how he got his name, Brown Face. And he was limping when we found him.
Dr. Reagan: As a matter of fact he’s lame isn’t he?
Rachel Houck: Yes, he has one leg that is broken and it’s not going to heal back together, but he, it doesn’t seem to bother him. He functions just fine.
Dr. Reagan: So was he hit by a car, or do you know?
Rachel Houck: I guess so. I think so.
Dr. Reagan: In fact we have some footage of him running and it’s amazing how fast a three-foot dog can run, right?
Rachel Houck: That’s right, that’s right.
Dr. Reagan: In fact he’s a hunter isn’t he?
Rachel Houck: He is, he’s a very good hunter because they did leave him, he had to hunt for his food and so he’s very good at hunting.
Dr. Reagan: Now when you first met Brown Face he did not have anything to do with you or anybody because he had been very badly mistreated, right?
Rachel Houck: Yes, he had.
Dr. Reagan: Tell us the story about how he warmed up to you.
Rachel Houck: Ok. He was laying on the driveway at the house where the people used to live, waiting for them to return. And he waited and waited, probably for months. And so we finally, one day, pulled over and had some fast food left over and we put a cup of water out and half a hamburger or something, and he ran to the bushes right when we pulled into the driveway, because he didn’t recognize the car. And then right when we got in the car and left, he would come out and get the water and the food. Well that went on a long time and one day I prayed, I said, “Lord, You know I’m really tired of this. I’m really tired of taking care of this dog and he won’t have anything to do with me, and today, God, if You could just make him roll over and just let me touch him.” I just wanted to touch him.
Dr. Reagan: Touch him.
Rachel Houck: So, no kidding, we drive up in the driveway, I get out of the car and the dog does just that, rolls over and I pet him and pet, and the whole relationship changed. He knew at that point he was my dog, and so did I.
Dr. Reagan: And so you brought him home.
Rachel Houck: We brought him home and the Lord healed him of heartworms. We took him to the vet like you do when you get a new dog and we took him to the vet and he had flea infestation and all kinds of terrible things and he had heartworms. And so we just put him on the heartworm preventative and, of course we prayed for him, and a year later he was healed, so.
Dr. Reagan: But I know that when you first brought him home he would not have anything to do with anyone except you.
Rachel Houck: No, right, right.
Dr. Reagan: I know that for six months I would try to just let him…but he had been so terribly mistreated that he was afraid of everyone, particularly men.
Rachel Houck: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: And he would not allow me to touch him. And today, it’s amazing what love does, because when I get out of the car he runs over to me and he wants me to scratch him underneath his neck.
Rachel Houck: Yes, he loves that, he loves that. He has warmed up.
Dr. Reagan: So he has been transformed by love.
Rachel Houck: Yes he has.
Dr. Reagan: Well let me ask you something Rachel. One of the things that we are considering in this particular program is whether or not you believe we will see our pets in Heaven. What do you think?
Rachel Houck: I think so. Just the way that the Lord has used this dog to teach me more about Him and His relationship with us, and, I mean, and just all the animal kingdom. My goodness, it’s the Lord’s greatest creation.
Dr. Reagan: Well one great thing about it is, if we do see our pets in Heaven, this one will have his leg healed.
Rachel Houck: Yeah!
Dr. Reagan: Thank you for bringing him.
Rachel Houck: Thank you.
Dr. Reagan: My next guest is Anna Watts. Anna is the daughter of one of our members of our media crew, Larry Watts. And I have invited her to come today because I wanted her to bring her cat. I figured that I was going to get in big trouble with cat lovers all across the nation if we only had dogs on this program. So, Anna, introduce us to your cat.
Anna Watts: Ok, this is Blue. He’s a blue point Siamese, and he weighs about 13 pounds.
Dr. Reagan: And how old is he?
Anna Watts: He is about three years old. He’ll be three years old in a couple of months.
Dr. Reagan: Do you have any other cats?
Anna Watts: Yes, we have four cats.
Dr. Reagan: How does he get along with the others?
Anna Watts: He does very well. He’s the only boy, so of course that helps.
Dr. Reagan: Have you had cats all your life?
Anna Watts: Yes, all my life.
Dr. Reagan: Well then, you’re going to be the expert that I need to talk to.
Anna Watts: Ok.
Dr. Reagan: Let me just be real frank with you here Anna. I have never owned a cat in my life. I’ve always considered cats to be very strange and very mysterious. I’ve never been able to understand how you can read a cat. You know, a dog is easy to read. You come home and the dog wags his tail if he’s happy, if he’s unhappy he growls at you or barks. But I can’t figure out cats. Can you read your cat? Can you tell when your cat is happy?
Anna Watts: I actually, I can, I really can. He, you can tell when he’s mad; you can tell when he’s happy, when he’s nervous. I guess it’s just because I’ve had him since he was a kitten.
Dr. Reagan: So you really know how to read a cat.
Anna Watts: I would say so.
Dr. Reagan: Well what is it that you like especially about cats?
Anna Watts: He, well, this one in particular, he’s extremely affectionate.
Dr. Reagan: Oh.
Anna Watts: And they do their own thing, they don’t depend on you for everything, but they are very sweet and they do, they give you comfort.
Dr. Reagan: So does he come up and kind of rub on your leg or something, how do you know when he, when this cat wants you to pick him up?
Anna Watts: Like you said, he rubs on you, and he meows at you, talks to you, so.
Dr. Reagan: What is the life expectancy of a cat like this, do you know?
Anna Watts: I really don’t know. The last cat that we had lived to be 14.
Dr. Reagan: Fourteen!
Anna Watts: We usually baby our cats, so.
Dr. Reagan: And does this cat go out and wander around? I’ve heard that tomcats in particular just kind of disappear for two or three days at a time.
Anna Watts: Well, he’s neutered so that doesn’t usually happen.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, ok. So he doesn’t go out and wander, huh?
Anna Watts: No, he doesn’t. He likes to stay close to home.
Dr. Reagan: Does he stay in the house most of the time?
Anna Watts: About half the time, he really likes to be outdoors, but he likes his people too.
Dr. Reagan: And this is a Siamese cat.
Anna Watts: Yeah, he’s a blue point.
Dr. Reagan: A blue point.
Anna Watts: And I actually named him Blue before we knew that he was a blue point, so.
Dr. Reagan: Well, Anna, we are considering today about pets and whether or not they are going to be in Heaven and I know you must consider cats to be a special blessing from God.
Anna Watts: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Do you think you are going to see your pets in Heaven?
Anna Watts: Oh, I definitely hope so, especially this one.
Dr. Reagan: I agree with that, I hope so too, and thank you today for bringing Blue.
Anna Watts: Thank you.
Dr. Reagan: Well my special guest for this segment is Debbie Blalock, who comes from Bullard, Texas. Where in the world is that?
Debbie Blalock: It’s just outside of Tyler.
Dr. Reagan: So, it’s over in beautiful East Texas.
Debbie Blalock: Beautiful East Texas, God’s country.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah. For those of you who don’t know Texas very well, there is a Western part that’s all desert. There’s a Central part that’s plains, but East Texas is absolutely gorgeous. That’s what we call the Piney Woods, where the big pine trees are. So you’re in the beautiful part of Texas. Now, tell us about our special guest here.
Debbie Blalock: Well this is Molly, and Molly is our pet, our child.
Dr. Reagan: Molly is a dachshund.
Debbie Blalock: She’s a dachshund. Well, she doesn’t know that, she thinks she’s human.
Dr. Reagan: Yes, I know, I know about that, I know about that. You know, my wife and I have had dachshunds all our lives and in fact we had one of our dachshunds on earlier in the program, and one thing I’ve learned about dachshunds is that they are very loyal, very faithful. They usually get attached to one person. And I’ve also noticed that they are very territorial. They have their territory. They don’t want any birds in their territory; they don’t want any squirrels. Now out in East Texas you’ve got a lot of squirrels, don’t they drive Molly nuts?
Debbie Blalock: Yes, and then consequently she drives us nuts.
Dr. Reagan: Well, in fact I’ve even watched the squirrels. They’ll come down the tree, and, maybe this high off the ground, and they will just – their fur will stand up on end, and they sort of growl, and they know how high that dog can jump and they just drive the dog nuts.
Debbie Blalock: They do, and she is very, she’ll sit there until she–
Dr. Reagan: Have you ever owned another dachshund?
Debbie Blalock: Oh yes, in fact, that’s about all we’ve ever owned is dachshunds.
Dr. Reagan: Well tell us about Molly’s personality. I know dogs have very distinctive personalities.
Debbie Blalock: Well, it’s very particular to the breed. She’s very affectionate, she’s very, like you said, territorial, and–
Dr. Reagan: Very wiggly.
Debbie Blalock: Very wiggly right now.
Dr. Reagan: Well she doesn’t know about this studio here.
Debbie Blalock: No she’s never been on camera before.
Dr. Reagan: How old is she?
Debbie Blalock: She’s six; she turned six last week, January the 5th.
Dr. Reagan: Now does she have other dogs at the house?
Debbie Blalock: No, she’s the only one.
Dr. Reagan: So she is sort of the queen bee.
Debbie Blalock: Yes, we’re not sure who owns the house, whether she does or we do.
Dr. Reagan: Every once in a while I look at my wife and she looks at me and I’ll say, “What a mighty dog we serve.”
Debbie Blalock: That’s true.
Dr. Reagan: Because they kind of rule the roost, and it’s amazing how they can let you know exactly what they want.
Debbie Blalock: It is amazing isn’t it? She, now she usually comes to me because she knows I’m going to be listening to her.
Dr. Reagan: Oh. Does she have a favorite treat?
Debbie Blalock: Oh, yes.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Debbie Blalock: Bacon, which is not good.
Dr. Reagan: Bacon. Which is not good for her.
Debbie Blalock: No, no. She doesn’t get it very often.
Dr. Reagan: Well Molly, I think, is trying to tell us that she’s about tired of this interview and she’s ready to get on with something more important right?
Debbie Blalock: I’m sure she is.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what I understand Debbie, is that Molly has a very, very special trick.
Debbie Blalock: She does. She’s, she’s a “born again dachshund.”
Dr. Reagan: A born again dachshund? Now that’s something, I wonder what in the world that means. A born again dachshund.
Debbie Blalock: Well I’m sure she’d be happy to show you.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, well I tell you what we’re going to do, we’re going to take a little break here and then were going to move this table out and we’re going to let Molly perform her trick right here. Ok?
Debbie Blalock: Ok. All right, Molly, are you ready to do your trick? I hope so, ok, here we go.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, now we’re ready for Molly.
Debbie Blalock: Molly, are you dead in your sins? Does Mohammad save? Does the Pope save? Can Molly save herself? Can Dave save you? Jesus saves.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, Molly, you are something else. You really are an evangelistic dog. Well, Debbie, you taught her that?
Debbie Blalock: Taught her, it took about ten minutes.
Dr. Reagan: In ten minutes!
Debbie Blalock: In ten minutes.
Dr. Reagan: And what was your idea behind this?
Debbie Blalock: Well, we had to move a lot with Steve’s job, my husband’s a locomotive engineer, and we’ve always had people coming in to hook up utilities or do some repair work, and I take 1 Peter 3:15 to heart. It says, “Sanctify Christ in your heart and be always ready to give an answer for the hope that is within you.”
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Debbie Blalock: And so, there’s been two things that the Lord has provided for us, a way to witness. And that’s, one through Molly, and through, you know, people always ask you about children.
Dr. Reagan: So, when you have a workman come to your home you can just say, “Hey, I want to show you a trick that my dog can do.”
Debbie Blalock: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: And then you can take off from there and just share the gospel with them.
Debbie Blalock: Exactly right.
Dr. Reagan: So Molly really is an evangelistic dog.
Debbie Blalock: She sure is.
Dr. Reagan: That is wonderful. I appreciate you driving so far from East Texas.
Debbie Blalock: Was happy to.
Dr. Reagan: To come over here and be with us today and to share Molly with a national television audience. I imagine we’re going to just be flooded with requests for this particular video so people can show Molly’s great trick.
Dr. Reagan: Okay, it’s time for us to take a look at the question we raised at the beginning of this program – namely, will our pets be in Heaven? As I pointed out earlier, I was prompted to think seriously about this question in 1998 when I received a remarkable letter from a lady in Houston, Texas, named Michelle Shannon. In her letter she informed me that her dog, Sable, had died recently. But instead of asking the usual question, “Will I see my pet in Heaven?” she proceeded to write an in-depth essay on why she was convinced that we will be reunited with our pets in Heaven. I was so impressed with her letter that we published it in our magazine and we posted it on our website where you can still find a copy of it today.
Now the first thing that Michelle did in her letter was to establish the fact that God loves and cares for the animals He has created. Here are the Scriptures she cited. She began with Revelation 4:11 which tells us that “all things were created for God’s pleasure.” Job 12:10 assures us that “In God’s hand is the life of every creature.” Luke 12:6 says that God never forgets about the animals. Matthew 10:29 says that even when a sparrow falls to the ground, God notices. Psalm 104 and Matthew 6 describe how God Himself feeds the animals. Proverbs 12:10 declares that a righteous man cares for the needs of his animals. The next point that Michelle made in her letter is that the Scriptures clearly teach that Man’s sin is what brought death and suffering to animals.
Michelle’s final point was that animals share in the redemption of the universe that Jesus died for on the Cross. This is an important point that most Christians are simply not aware of. You see folks, in Old Testament times, the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies once a year to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant to make atonement for the sins of the people. Now this act was prophetic in nature pointing to the fact that one day the Messiah would shed His blood for the mercy of God to cover the law of God.
But what most people have never noticed is that the Scriptures say that the High Priest took a step back from the Ark and sprinkled the blood on the ground in front of the Ark. This act was to symbolize the fact that the Messiah would also die to make possible the redemption of all of God’s creation including both the plant and the animal kingdoms.
Consequently, we are told in Romans 8 that all of God’s creation yearns for the Lord’s return when the curse will be lifted, and the plant and animal kingdoms will be returned to their original perfection, as when they were created.
And we are told in Isaiah 11 that when the curse is lifted, the wolf will dwell with the lamb, the lion will eat straw with the ox, the cow will graze with the bear, and little children will play with cobras because they will no longer be poisonous. The Millennium will truly be a peaceable kingdom where Man and nature will live together in perfect peace and harmony.
Randy Alcorn, in his great book about Heaven, emphasizes what he calls “the principle of redemptive continuity,” whereby the new, millennial earth, as well as the new earth of eternity, will be an extension of this earth, with everything perfected. Now keep in mind that in Revelation 21:5 it says that “God will make all things new.” It does not say He will make new things. Randy Alcorn puts it this way: “God will not scrap His original creation and start over. Instead, He will take His fallen, corrupted creation and restore, refresh, and renew it to its original design.”
So, my friends, there will be animals in the Millennium, and the Bible teaches there are animals in Heaven now. For example, Revelation 4 tells us that God’s throne is protected by four living animals who also serve as worship leaders. Also, Revelation 19:11 says that Jesus will return to this earth from Heaven riding on a white horse. The principle of redemptive continuity would therefore necessitate animals in the eternal Heaven, which will be located on a new earth, most likely this earth renovated by fire.
But will those animals be the pets we knew in this life? The Bible does not say, but it hints that they might be. The hint is found in Psalm 104: verses 29 and 30. Verse 29 says, “When You take away their breath (the breath of animals), they die and return to the dust. Verse 30 says, “But when you send Your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.”
In Matthew 19:28 Jesus referred to His return to this earth as the time of “regeneration.” The apostle Peter affirmed this when he said the return of Jesus would be the period of “the restoration of all things.” So, although these verses do not promise the re-creation of our pets, they certainly hint at it, and they do not rule out the possibility. Knowing how much God loves His creation and how much He loves to delight His Redeemed, I would personally not be the least bit surprised to discover that one of the many blessings of Heaven will be reunification with our beloved pets.
Well, folks, that’s our program for this week. I hope it has been a blessing to you. Until next week, the Lord willing, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our Redemption is drawing near.”
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