Israel: His Story

Part 2: Interview

Wendy Howard: Thank you. It’s so great to be here.

Tim Moore: Well, we’ve looked forward to this day. Vivian, we’re so glad you’re here, too.

Vivian Summey: And we are honored.

Tim Moore: Well, it is our honor to have you, yes.

Nathan Jones: You know, how many Bible studies and sermons have Tim and I given where you two are sitting out in the audience smiling big? It’s so encouraging to us.

Tim Moore: It certainly is. And obviously, we’re going to talk about this. Wendy, you and I were able to go to Israel together, but we’ll get to that in a moment. I’m eager to know how this came about. Wendy, you first approach me with this idea for a book about Israel and I was intrigued primarily because I knew that we would be highlighting the modern nation of Israel as The Greatest Sign prophetically here in 2025. And boy has that proven true over and over again. So, what inspired you toward this project initially?

Wendy Howard: Well, Vivian had called me last October and said, “Would you like to watch a three-part series by Derek Prince on Israel?” And I said, sure. And we started watching that series and writing down the copious amounts of Scriptures that were coming out of his mouth. And lo and behold, we thought, these are in wonderful categories or chapters. And then, Vivian, through the Spirit, you just felt like we should write a booklet.

Tim Moore: So, really, we have you to think initially for this idea and for being the co-author for this tremendous book. And really, I say author, but, ladies, one of the things that makes this book so powerful is you’ve taken mostly Scripture and woven it together in a way that just lays out God’s unfolding revelation of His love for, His plan for Israel.

Wendy Howard: We felt like there was nothing else out there like it using only God’s Word to tell the story…

Tim Moore: Amen.

Wendy Howard: …of His people.

Nathan Jones: Well, you begin the book with a quote by Oswald Chambers that just really hit me. It says, “God elected a certain nation to be His bond-slave, and through that nation, a knowledge of His salvation is to come to all the world.” Why is that? Why do so many Christians miss the fact that God is not done with Israel, He still has promises for Israel. How are they missing these promises when they read the Bible?

Wendy Howard: I just feel like it’s a lack of not knowing. That was my story. I didn’t know until Vivian’s heart for Israel was imparted to me 20 something years ago. And as we studied and did Bible studies, and you see God’s Word, it is laid out so clearly. And I think sometimes we miss the connection between the old Israel of the Old Testament and the modern Israel, and how God’s promises carry all the way through.

Tim Moore: You know, that was a theme in Paul Wilkinson’s book when we interviewed him recently this year, about how Israel still is the inheritance of God. He has not forsaken them, He’s not cast them aside. Yes, He disciplined them. That was always prophetically foretold, but He still had a plan and a provision. And we have the blessing of being eyewitnesses of that coming back into the fore on the world stage just within the last century. So, within our lifetimes, virtually, we’re seeing God fulfilling His promises.

Well, again, we’ll go back to you, Vivian. How did you come to understand that not only do we worship a Jewish Messiah, Jesus Christ or Yeshua Hamashiach, but that Israel itself is central in God’s unfolding plan for history?

Vivian Summey: You know, from the very beginning, right after I was born again as a Christian, I started watching Christian Broadcast Network, 700 Club, and Pat Robertson taught all the time on Israel. And I became a believer in the Word of God and what the Bible says about Israel. And from then on, I just kept adding, listening to things like I listened to Lamb & Lion, David Reagan on the radio.

Nathan Jones: So, you’re talking like back in the ’80s?

Vivian Summey: In the ’80s.

Nathan Jones: Wow.

Vivian Summey: And I loved his program. And so, that on top of many others, I just continued to grow in the knowledge and looking into the Scriptures, bought a lot of books, went to synagogues, went to all kinds of things that I could go to, to grow in my understanding. And it became more and more clear, like Wendy said, that the Israel is the center.

Tim Moore: You’ve mentioned several names, not only Dr. Reagan here at Lamb & Lion Ministries, but others who were gifted in their ability to share and communicate, but you also made it very clear you went to the Word of God…

Vivian Summey: Absolutely.

Tim Moore: and it is clear as you read and study the Word, not just the New Testament or the Old, but the entirety of God’s Word.

Vivian Summey: Yes.

Tim Moore: that His provision for Israel is still yes and amen. That’s what Paul makes very clear in the Book of Romans. And so, how did you go about, obviously, Derek Prince’s teaching was very helpful, but as you began to determine which passages of Scripture you would weave into a book, obviously, we did not print a 400-page book.

Vivian Summey: Right.

Tim Moore: Or we did not just say, here, read the Bible, but you had specific passages that the Holy Spirit revealed you should weave these together and it becomes very clear.

Wendy Howard: Yes. That is absolutely right. As we were reading and studying and I was even rereading Dr. Reagan’s book, Israel in Bible Prophecy: Past, Present, & Future, and just, he would have a verse in there that we didn’t get initially in our group. And the Lord would just highlight it, and then Vivian would say, we need to add this category. For example, the election and preservation of the Jews became a category, because we started seeing the Scriptures for that. Even a category for antisemitism and anti-Zionism, as we saw those Scriptures of the persecution throughout the history of the Jewish people.

Nathan Jones: This book is very much like an index where if you want to have a particular topic about Israel, you get the Bible verses not just listed but actually spelled out for you. I think one example, Chapter 2 is God’s purpose for the Jewish people. You list what those purposes are and you give the verses, which makes a great reference. So, real quickly, what is God’s purpose for the Jewish people? Because Israel is not just a landmass, it’s a people group.

Vivian Summey: That’s right.

Wendy Howard: Well, I would say what we highlighted in the book was that He was going to bring the Messiah through the Jewish people.

Tim Moore: First and foremost.

Wendy Howard: Yes. And He was going to bring the Word of God, the Oracles of God through the Jewish people. I remember when we landed on that whole subject and we were so excited. Yes, He wanted to bring the Word through that. And so, He has a purpose of the Messiah being a light to the world. Not only the Gentiles were going to be chosen, but He had the plan from the beginning that the Messiah would bring that light to the Gentiles too, to the nations.

Tim Moore: I think that is so very important and is the most important aspect. And that is Jesus Christ being born through the Jewish people.

Vivian Summey: Amen.

Tim Moore: Not just for the Jew, yes, Jew first, but also for the Gentiles.

Wendy Howard: That’s right.

Tim Moore: And yet I think God demonstrates His grace and that He chose the least of these. I mean, Abraham, we call him a righteous forebear because he obeyed God, he trusted God. But the Lord says the Jewish people were not any greater in number or in power, or anything else than the rest of the nations of the earth. But He chose them and elevated them. And then, just as a father disciplines his children, the Lord at times, discipline, but always shows His love, His grace, His loving kindness for the Jewish people.

Vivian Summey: Yes.

Nathan Jones: And I love your point too, that God does all this to make a name for Himself. In the end, yes, He’s blessing us.

Vivian Summey: Yes, but I was going to say.

Nathan Jones: I mean, He blesses the families of the Earth. You’ve listed, He brings salvation to the Gentiles, He makes a Messiah the light of the nations, and He brings us the Bible. But in the end, in so many prophecies, the Lord says, “I’m doing this for you in part, but this is for My name to defend my holy Name. And you’ve listed here, 2 Samuel 7:23 and 1 Chronicles 17:21, excellent verses.

Tim Moore: Yes. Well, obviously, Wendy, I saw your heart for the Lord and for Israel when we went to Israel on a pilgrimage trip. It’s been harder to do that these last couple of years, but we hope that that window continues to open so that we can take more people. When we went there, I had asked you to lead a discussion when we were at Magdalene. In other words, Magdala, where Mary Magdalene was from, and you shared, and we know that Jesus, yes, chose 12 men, but He had a number of women.

And I dare say the women were more faithful to stick with Him, even in His hour of greatest need. The men fled, the women remained at the cross and came back to the tomb. Jesus really elevated the role of women in His ministry and beyond. So, share a little bit about your heart from being in Israel, even sharing there at Magdala.

Wendy Howard: Oh, that was just the most wonderful time of my life. First, Vivian giving me the love for Israel. Then, being able to go with you to that Holy Land where His Word was written, where Jesus walked. You were so good to tell us, “Now, this is what they think. This is where they think Jesus might’ve been.” But when you knew, when we were standing on that holy ground, it was just the most remarkable thing. And that my heart grew even more. And of course, the geography, when you can understand from north to south where these things occurred now when you read the Word, when I read the Word, I can just tell where these things took place. So, thank you, Tim, for that.

Tim Moore: Well, thank the Lord that we have that opportunity.

Wendy Howard: Yeah.

Nathan Jones: Well, considering the land, that’s all in the news these days. Who owns it? Do the Jewish people own it? Do the so-called Palestinians own it? Did the Arabs own it? Did the Vatican own it? Tell us a little about, you give a lot of verses here. Quite a chunk of this book points to the Abrahamic covenant. Why is the Abrahamic covenant so important for the Jewish claim to that piece of land?

Vivian Summey: Because this is God’s Word, and God says, “This is My land and I have given it to Israel.” And so, when you, if you believe the Bible, you have to believe the truth of the Bible. And that is that He says very clearly, “This is My land.” And even gives the boundaries of the land. So, we’ve included all of that so that people can really understand and really get the fullness of those Scriptures.

Tim Moore: Right. And I think the only graphic that we put in this is the map that you provided that shows the dimensions of the land, which eventually we know will be much larger than today. All of it restored in the fullness of time. But the Lord has been faithful and He continues to re-elevate Israel in the eyes of the world. I think that’s why Satan is motivated- to be an antagonistic force all around the world, but especially there in the Promised Land.

Vivian Summey: That’s right.

Nathan Jones: Why is then Jerusalem so important to Bible prophecy? I mean, it’s been important to the Jewish people since David took the town and made it the capital, but. And again, just like the land, it seems like everybody wants to control Jerusalem. We’ve been to Jerusalem. It’s nice. I mean, it’s not Washington, DC or Paris, or anything like that, but yet the world all seems to want to control Jerusalem. Why is that?

Wendy Howard: Yes. Well, the Scriptures clearly say that God set Jerusalem at the center of the world. And that word in Hebrew, center, as you all both probably know, means belly button. And it wasn’t New York, it wasn’t any other city, but it was Jerusalem at the center. And when we were in Israel, I bought this necklace, this letter shin. And it is God’s name over Jerusalem in the form of the valleys. And it meant so much to me because Jerusalem is His place, His Holy City. And we want to honor that. And we want the people to know that the Word of God teaches that.

Tim Moore: I think there’s so much even revealed in that truth. It may not be the most beautiful city in the eyes of man, but there’s something, whenever I go to Jerusalem, it just, it tugs at my own heartstrings because I know this is the place God loved. Not because it’s aesthetically the most pleasing to my eye, but because it is His. Just like Jesus Christ was not beautiful in the eyes of the world. He did not have any form that that men would think of as high and lifted up. And yet, He was the true manifestation of God Himself in the flesh. And so, God chooses the weak, despise things, even folks like me and Nathan, to serve Him. And the world might scoff, but that is the beauty of what God does. And He is clearly served through you, ladies, as an instrument to get this message out.

Wendy Howard: Thank you.

Vivian Summey: Can I add something?

Tim Moore: Please.

Vivian Summey: I’ve been to Israel twice, and Jerusalem, you know it when you’re there, Jerusalem is His. And He will, when He returns in His Second Coming, His feet are going to come down on the Mount of Olives. And when you’re there, it does something to you spiritually. You’re never the same after going.

Tim Moore: I think though, the way that that happens, Vivian, is when you have His Words so deeply planted in your heart.

Vivian Summey: Yes.

Tim Moore: If I went there without understanding from the revealed Word of God, I don’t know if I’d have that same sense. But having studied the Scriptures and seeing God over and over again testify to His love for this place, for this city, then my heart overflows with recognition. But if I was like the secularist and the scoffers, I don’t know if I’d have that same appreciation.

Nathan Jones: It seems like the Jewish people, when they designed the Mount of Olives graveyard up there, they have these little round areas that look like landing pads. I don’t know, is that on purpose that Jesus’ supposed to land right there? It’s like a bullseye for Him to target. But once Jesus returns and He defeats the Antichrist and He sends Satan to the pit, what is the future of Jerusalem as prophesied?

Wendy Howard: Oh, just beautiful Scriptures. We have a whole section in there on End Times. And then, the Millennium. And in the Millennium, He is restoring everything that He promised in the original covenants. The land is going to flow like the land flowing with milk and honey and wine. And everybody’s going to come to the mountain of Jerusalem, and people are going to be grabbing the cloak of the Jew, and saying, “Take me to your God.” It’s just, it’s amazing.

Tim Moore: So, the interesting thing about even this name Israel, is it refers not only to the land, it refers to the ancient nation and the modern nation. It refers to the original patriarch Israel, whose name was changed from Jacob. And it refers to the people. So, let’s talk a little bit more about the people, and not just Jewish men, but Jewish women. Again, this is, God calls Jews men and women just as He now has provision for Jew and Gentile alike. But why did He take this specific people group and make them into the apple of His eye, as Deuteronomy 32:10 says?

Vivian Summey: Well, you’ve got the Scripture that both of us love and that is quoted Deuteronomy.

Wendy Howard: Deuteronomy. Well, you said it. He had made them a possession out of all the peoples on the Earth. And it wasn’t because they were great in number, but they were the fewest. But He set His love on them because He loved them and because of the oath that He swore to their forefather.

Tim Moore: Doesn’t that give you encouragement? Because it’s nothing of merit in me or in any of us that He says mine and He elevates us and blesses us in spite of ourselves. And that’s just another demonstration of His grace and wonder.

Vivian Summey: Yes. Amen.

Nathan Jones: He seems to like to take the weak things, He says, the things that we would pass over, and turn them into the foundation of everybody’s plan. It really must disturb Satan deeply all the time. Because Satan always goes for the strongest and most powerful person as he sees himself, but…

Tim Moore: Well, on that note, what do you see happening even in front of our eyes in these last few years, especially as Satan seems to be raging against the Jewish people, against the land of Israel, against the nation of Israel, such antisemitism. You said anti-Zionism, same thing. Really a hatred for the chosen people of God.

Vivian Summey: The enemy has put hatred into hearts. And it’s demonic, honestly. It is demonic. And the thing that we realize is we are in a spiritual battle. And this is a huge spiritual battle. And not only is there hatred, there’s murder that goes along with it, spirit of murder. And so, we are seeing exactly what has been predicted in the Word of God. We know this was coming. I think it’s kind of rolled out in a way that we’ve never thought it would happen, especially I think here in America, seeing things happening with murders and people being just harassed and assaulted, especially Jewish students.

Nathan Jones: You know that little 88-year-old lady, got a Molotov cocktail thrown at her.

Vivian Summey: Yes.

Nathan Jones: She survives a concentration camp, get attacked in the United States.

Wendy Howard: And Vivian, I love what you said earlier when we were coming here, she said that hatred opens the door for Satan to bring delusion. And you can almost see people just have no clue what the truth is about Israel, or about humanity, or Jewish people as people. And that delusion just takes over. There’s a spirit.

Tim Moore: So, what should a Christian do? As faithful followers of Jesus Christ, how do we not only bear testimony to the truth, His story, but try to counter that? And we know it’s a spiritual battle, but what can any of us, what can each of us do to be a beacon of truth and light even in this dark age?

Vivian Summey: Well, I can share after October 7th, I live in the North Dallas area, and I have Jewish people on all sides. I know my neighbors. I went to each of them and gave them a rose, and a note because I wanted them to know that I stand with them, and I love them and I care about them. So, there are things you can do, as God prompts you, that help people to know that we stand with the Jewish people because of the love of Jesus. And I told them that, but they were so touched that someone would come. One of the doctors that lives behind me, he is a doctor, and he said, with tears in his eyes, he said, “No one has said anything to me.”

Tim Moore: Wow. You know, Vivian, it burdens my heart to know that historically, I mean, for the last 2,000 years, the Jewish people have come to believe that their greatest persecutor are the Christians. Even the persecution we see today from the Muslim community is relatively recent. The nations that persecuted the Jews most violently, whether it’s Germany, Poland, Russia, France, Spain, they were all ostensibly Christian nations. And I think some Jews have kind of adopted that outlook.

But they’ve begun to realize, and I’ve seen this even on visits to Israel, that the Jewish people there, and dare say, hopefully the Jewish people here in America, realize, well, those evangelical Christians, the ones who truly are followers of Jesus Christ, they love us. And that gives an open door to actually build relationship and tell them about our Jewish Messiah.

Nathan Jones: Well, how will salvation then come to the Jewish people? Clearly under the law, or I think the last statistic I heard, 75% of Jewish people are secular humanists. They don’t even believe in God. How does the Bible prophesy that salvation will finally come to the Jewish people? They will finally accept Yeshua as Messiah?

Wendy Howard: Yeah. Well, they currently, according to Scripture, have a veil over their eyes. And we pray constantly that that veil would be removed for individual Jews right now. And we know that in the end, at the end of the Tribulation, that when Jesus returns, they will look upon Him whom they have pierced, and they will mourn. And they will finally have their eyes open and they will see their messiah. And sadly, that is a very treacherous, difficult time. And they will, two-thirds of them will lose their life according to Scripture, and one-third will be saved through it. So, as many as we can get the Gospel to right now. It’s so important because then they’re saved and they’ve become part of the believing body that will be removed from the Earth. So, we’re…

Tim Moore: God’s prophetic Word basically says, as you’re telling us, that the people as a nation have to come to the end of themselves. But frankly, each and every one of us has to come to the end of ourselves, realize that I cannot possibly save myself and cry out, Lord, save me, and confess my own sinfulness and accept His provision for salvation. So, yes, in the fullness of time, Scripture says the Jewish people will. But right now, we pray for individual Jews, and hopefully you are as well to come to know Yeshua as God’s provision for salvation. Ms. Vivian, any other thoughts as long as you’ve been studying and sharing this message?

Vivian Summey: No, I just would say that honestly, this book is a tremendous help for anyone who really is seeking to know truth, to know what the Bible says regarding all these topics that we’ve talked about. Even have a chapter heads that you can go right to it. But we need the Word of God to really go out. And we’re hoping this book will take the Word forth and that people will not only know more about Israel, they’ll know about the Jewish people, but they will also know about salvation, which we’ve included in this book.

Tim Moore: Amen.

Nathan Jones: Yes, you end with some guy named Tim Moore who wrote a wonderful salvation message…

Vivian Summey: Yes, it was great!

Nathan Jones: …at the end of it.

Wendy Howard: Yes, he did!

Tim Moore: As you’ve taught me, Nathan.

Nathan Jones: Well then, Tim, the question would then be, how does one come to know Jesus as Savior?

Tim Moore: Well, one comes to know Jesus as Savior by giving up on any kind of self-salvation, and recognizing, as we said, I am a sinner. I have sinned. I fall short of the glory of God and none of my so-called righteous deeds will ever get me to Heaven. There’s not a big scale that my good deeds get weighed against my bad deeds because nothing merits me standing before holy God and saying, I deserve salvation. But by placing trust in Jesus Christ, confessing I’m a sinner, and saying, Lord, I believe in You, just as Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God, then we can be declared righteous through Christ righteousness imparted or credited to us, and therefore we are saved.

And you’re exactly right. We give a two-page summary of that very point. But, ladies, you also included a testimony of Scripture about the plan of salvation through the Old Testament and the New Testament. And really, God’s story is summed up in one word or one person, Jesus Christ. So, I just want to thank you both for your faithfulness to the Lord and for your inspired and frankly, your inspiring vision for this booklet.

Wendy Howard: Thank you. We loved doing it.

Vivian Summey: Thank you.

Wendy Howard: It was a great honor.

Tim Moore: Well, I know many will be blessed.

Vivian Summey: And you, we’re praying for blessing on this ministry and that God will use this to further bless everything you do.

Tim Moore: Everything that we are doing together, co-laboring for Christ.

Vivian Summey: Yes. Amen.

Tim Moore: Thank you.

Closing

Tim Moore: The theme of our Lamb & Lion Ministry’s Annual Conference this year was The Greatest Sign of All. Israel is that sign, as has been evident to all but the spiritually blind and those opposed to God’s outworking in human history.

Nathan Jones: You cannot understand the history of the world or God’s provision for salvation through Jesus Christ without recognizing His interaction with the land, the nation, and the people of Israel, the Jews. He has not washed His hands of the children of Israel. In fact, their continued presence on the Earth and their reemergence as a modern nation state is one of the clearest indications that the Bible is true. From beginning to end, God’s promises were, are, and will always be “Yes and Amen!”

Tim Moore: We hope that you’ll get a copy of Israel: His Story. More important even than that, we hope that you’ll place your trust in Jesus Christ. Be grafted into the Righteous Branch, the True Vine that provides sustenance for this life and offers life everlasting.

Nathan Jones: And you could read excerpts from this book as a preview by visiting our online store at christinprophecy.org. While there, you can also access all of our other materials from past episodes of Christ in Prophecy to our Lamplighter magazine, to our radio program, and countless other articles and resources.

Tim Moore: The same Jesus who spoke truth to the woman that the well offered true shalom to Mary Magdalene and called her by name following His resurrection and inspired Wendy Howard and Vivian Summey to write this wonderful booklet, stands ready to give purpose and meaning to your life as well.

We pray that you hear His voice and become part of His story. Until next week…Godspeed!

Nathan Jones: Christ in Prophecy is made possible through the faithful and generous support of viewers like you. Please consider making a donation to Lamb & Lion Ministries so that we can continue broadcasting the message of Jesus’ soon return. Thank you and God bless you.

End of Program