Forum on the Rapture

What is the Rapture? Find out from a forum of Bible prophecy experts on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Last aired on May 18, 2014.

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Lion of Judah Ministries

Spirit of Grace Ministries


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God's Plan for the Ages

God's Plan for the Ages Book
by Dr. David R. Reagan


Dr. Reagan: What do you know about the Rapture? I was born into a Christian family and raised in the Church. But after having gone to church regularly for 25 years, if you had asked me to define the word, rapture, I probably would have said it’s the sensation you feel when your girlfriend kisses you! In all my years of going to church, I had never heard of the Rapture one time. So, is it a biblical concept? What does it mean? And when will it occur? These and many other questions about the Rapture are going to be addressed by a panel of Bible prophecy experts on this program. Stay tuned.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. As you can see, I have a studio full of people today, all of whom are experts in Bible prophecy. Let me quickly introduce them to you and then I want to kick off this forum by asking them a series of questions about the Rapture. First is Gary Fisher, a dear friend of mine who is Director and Founder of Lion of Judah Ministries in Franklin, Tennessee right outside of Nashville. Welcome Gary. Glad to have you with us.

Gary Fisher: Thank you Dave, great to be back.

Dr. Reagan: Next is my former colleague here at Lamb & Lion and this is Dennis Pollock. Dennis ministered together with me for 11 years before he felt called to establish a ministry called Spirit of Grace that is located in McKinney, Texas. Its focus is the continent of Africa, but he goes many places to minister. Welcome, Dennis glad to have you.

Dennis Pollock: Well thanks Dave, always love to be with you.

Dr. Reagan: And down on the end here of course is Nathan Jones my fellow Evangelist here at Lamb & Lion and my co-host on this program. Welcome Nathan.

Nathan Jones:Thank you.

Dr. Reagan: And I want to jump right into this.

Nathan Jones: Let’s do it.

Dr. Reagan: Fellas I happen to know that all three of you believe in something called the Rapture of the Church. And so my first questions is how can you believe in something called the Rapture when it is not even mentioned in the Bible?

Dennis Pollock: Well Dave we use names to define individuals. You know if my wife was talking to someone about me she wouldn’t say, “Well that old guy that I married, 5’10” 170 pounds,” and give a long definition she would just say, “Dennis.” And it is just a lot simpler and so we wouldn’t have to use the word Rapture at all. We could say, “Well I am so excited about that great 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. You know the one where the Lord descends from Heaven with a shout and the voice of an archangel. And the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first, and we who are alive and remain will be caught. You know that.” But it is just a lot easier to say Rapture.

Dr. Reagan: Or the “great snatching away.”

Dennis Pollock: Or the “great snatching away.”

Nathan Jones: Or the “great snatching away,” which they get from 1 Thessalonians 4:17, “Then we who are still alive will be caught up, together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.” Now the Greek word for caught up is “harpazo.” The Latin was “rapio” and when we Englishize it “rapio” turns to Rapture. So it is in the Bible, it is right there 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Dr. Reagan: That’s right it is in the Bible. It is in the Latin translation which is the only Bible the Western World had for about 1,300 years.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: So it comes right out of there. It doesn’t have to be in English for it to be a biblical word.

Gary Fisher: Right.

Dr. Reagan: And further more I would point out that even if the word were not in the Bible it represents a Biblical concept just like trinity does.

Dennis Pollock: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: And that’s not in the Bible.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, that’s not in the Bible.

Dr. Reagan: Or Shekinah glory of God, which is not in the Bible but represents a concept that is in the Bible.

Dennis Pollock: Sure.

Nathan Jones: Bible is not in the Bible.

Dennis Pollock: That’s right.

Dr. Reagan: Did you hear that, Bible’s not in the Bible.

Gary Fisher: Bible’s not in the Bible, Trinity. I’m amazed by the resistance toward the word because as we have already pointed out that word showed up in the Latin Vulgate which was published around 400 AD, and it’s been around that long. And we translate it into English and it became the words, “caught up,” as you pointed out and then the word disappeared.

Dr. Reagan: And the whole concept as you pointed out comes out of 1 Thessalonians right?

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Alright, let’s define Rapture because there may be people watching who have never even heard of the term like I did going to church for 25 years I never heard it. So what is a simple definition of the Rapture? What are we talking about?

Gary Fisher: It’s the event at which Christians will meet the Lord in the air when He descends to retrieve His Church.

Dr. Reagan: Ok.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, Nathan talked about the Greek word, “harpazo.” Actually you find that 3 times in the New Testament, once is the 1 Thessalonian passage where it talks about us being caught up, or snatched. It is basically meaning a violent grab or a snatch to take something for yourself. You also find it where Jesus said, “I give my sheep eternal life and they will never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand.” It is the same exact word, they won’t rapture, they won’t violently take them away from me. And then also with Philip when he baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch the Bible says when they came up out of the water the spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, snatched him away. So it is essentially Christ snatching the Church to Himself, and exactly what He said He would do.

Dr. Reagan: Why do you believe that the Rapture is an event separate and apart from the Second Coming?

Gary Fisher: I would say the doctrine of imminence. There is no way to insist that the Lord can come today if it is the Second Coming because the Second Coming has many prophecies that need to be fulfilled before. But we have Scriptures that demand that the Lord could come at any moment.

Dr. Reagan: So you are saying that the Bible says over and over that the coming of the Lord can be any moment, it is imminent.

Gary Fisher: Today would be good with me.

Dr. Reagan: But the Second Coming is not imminent.

Gary Fisher: It is not. There are many prophecies that have to be fulfilled.

Dr. Reagan: It is probably anything but.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, really if you look at the alternative for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the idea of Christ coming for His Church at the end of the Tribulation what you would have to say then would be there is no possible way He could come today because we haven’t seen the Antichrist. We haven’t seen all this death and destruction Revelation prophecies about. There are so many things, you know the Antichrist coming into the Temple showing himself to be god, there are all kinds of things. So what you would do is you would wake up every morning saying, “No way could Jesus Christ come today.” But that goes against the very heart of what Christ is telling us which is to always watch for Him, He could come at any time.

Dr. Reagan: Well, Nathan, there is two major passages in the New Testament about the Coming of the Lord, one is in 1 Thessalonians which talks about the Rapture. And the other one is Revelation 19 which talks about the Second Coming. They are just as different as night and day. So they have to be two separate events. How are they different?

Nathan Jones: Well see that is one thing about the Rapture being separate from the Second Coming is because when you read the passages about the Rapture like you said 1 Thessalonians 4, and then 1 Corinthians 15 and so on. And then you compare them to the Second Coming where Jesus returns to earth and sets up His Kingdom; Matthew 24, and Luke 21, and Mark 13. They tell a very different story. For instance at the Rapture it talks about believers, the Church being brought up to Jesus in the clouds and then going to Heaven. But when you read about the Second Coming passage the Church is returning with Jesus from the clouds to go down to the earth. So there is a very different story there. Or like for instance when the believers are taken up into Heaven it gives a definition about the Mount of Olives. You know nothing happens to the Mount of Olives. But when Jesus returns the Mount of Olives splits. I think Dennis made a major point there, the Rapture is an imminent event, it could happens as Jesus said in Matthew 24, at any time. But the Second Coming has 7 years’ worth of 21 judgments that have to happen before the Second Coming.

Dr. Reagan: And in the Rapture Jesus doesn’t even come to earth.

Gary Fisher: That’s right.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, that’s true He never steps foot on the earth at that time.

Dr. Reagan: But at the Second Coming He does.

Nathan Jones: He does, very different.

Dennis Pollock: Both cases you have Jesus coming for a major event. The first case is His wedding, He is coming as the heavenly bridegroom for His Church to take them to Himself. The second case is His inauguration where He is coming to the earth to rule and reign over the earth as Lord and King during the Millennial reign.

Part 2

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum concerning the Rapture. Now fellas, if there is going to be two separate comings of the Lord called the Rapture and the Second Coming. Aren’t you really talking about two second comings?

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Oh.

Gary Fisher: Duh.

Dennis Pollock: Well, you are talking about two comings of Christ. I mean traditionally scholars have called the second coming or referred to the Second Coming as when He comes to rule and reign on the earth. And the coming of Christ for His Church as the Rapture. But you know as Shakespeare would say, “a rose by any other name is going to smell just as sweet.” So essentially you’ve got Christ coming twice, once for His people, second time to rule and reign on the earth.

Gary Fisher: There are a lot of people that are bothered by this concept. But if they would really think it through this is not such a foreign concept because in the Old Testament there were two stages of the Messiah coming; one is the suffering Messiah, another is a glorious conquering Messiah. And so we have the same scenario in the New Testament.

Dr. Reagan: So what you are saying then is the Second Coming is going to be in two stages.

Gary Fisher: It is.

Nathan Jones: That is how I like to look at it. I don’t quite agree that it is two separate comings but that it is the same coming, it is bookends, bookends on the event of the Tribulation.

Dennis Pollock: 2A and 2B perhaps.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, exactly.

Gary Fisher: I was just having a little fun. But yeah you’re right.

Dennis Pollock: Gary makes an excellent point. You know there is nowhere in the Bible where it just flat out spells it out for example that the Messiah would come first to suffer, and second to reign. I mean it does say that but it is not put in such plain words that you read the Bible through one time and immediately get it. You have to think, you have to pray, you need to be led by the Spirit. And eventually by the time Christ came there were even some Jews talking about the idea of a Messiah that would come and suffer. And a Messiah that would come and reign. And of course now we just take that for granted. But it’s not spelled out plainly. You know if you are trying a case for murder the one thing you would hopefully get would be an eyewitness. That would just settle it right there. You know some credible witness to say I plain saw the guy do it. But if you don’t have that then what you do is you pile up circumstantial evidence. You pile up all kinds of weight of different things that all point to the same thing, I think that is what you have with the Rapture.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, well let’s talk about that for a moment. There are people who believe in both a Rapture and a Second Coming but they disagree on the timing. Some believe the Rapture will occur at the time of the Second Coming. People will be taken up to the Lord and then turn right back and come down, kind of a yo-yo rapture at the end of the Tribulation. Some put the Rapture in the middle of the Tribulation. You fellows are putting it before the Tribulation, Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Now give me an argument for a Pre-Tribulation for the timing before the Tribulation, Nathan.

Nathan Jones: Well one of the strongest I think is 2 Thessalonians when it talks about the restrainer will be removed from the world when the Antichrist comes. At the beginning of the Tribulation the Antichrist is introduced to the world he sets up a peace covenant with Israel and the restraining influence of God is taken out of this earth. And I’ve always believed that the restraining influence of God is the Holy Spirit through the Church.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Nathan Jones: I mean obviously the Holy Spirit is working during the Tribulation to bring people to Christ. But to remove that restrainer what is the restraint? The restraint is the Church. So the Church isn’t there in the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: How about you Gary what is an argument for it?

Gary Fisher: Well, again, I would like to go back to that word imminence.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Gary Fisher: Because the Tribulation starts with prophetic events and they escalate all the way down to the Second Coming. But we argue from other Scriptures that the Rapture can occur at any moment. So therefore if it can occur at any moment it obviously has to be before any of these prophesied signs take place. So, today would be good.

Dr. Reagan: How about you? Anything you want to add to that about why you would put it before the Tribulation?

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, well, there is the whole idea of us not being subject to the wrath of God.

Dr. Reagan: There you go.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, that is a good one.

Dennis Pollock: There is the concept of Lot and his family being pulled out before the fire falls. You know we are not subject to wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. So I mean that is a lot. But I think the point of imminence is so far above every other argument that it deserves the highest place. Clearly we have to look for the coming of Christ at any moment.

Dr. Reagan: Well, I would agree and it is over in 1 Thessalonians also. I am trying to find it here. Where it speaks about the fact that we are waiting for the Lord to come from Heaven. Yeah, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 we are waiting for His Son from Heaven who He raised from the dead that is Jesus who will deliver us from the wrath that is to come.

Gary Fisher: Wow.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: That’s a pretty strong statement in behalf of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: Let me ask you this are there any symbolic types of the Rapture in the Old Testament Scriptures?

Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah. I mean look at Lot for instance when Lot was in Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns were supposed to be destroyed by God, the wrath of God on those towns. He sent angels to pull Lot and his wife and daughters out of that town, before God’s wrath came. I mean God could have destroyed the entire town including Lot but He rescued the righteous people. And God always rescues the righteous.

Gary Fisher: Well I like Nathan’s point. Jesus Himself chose two of these rapture types and He said, “Just as it was in the days of Noah,” Luke 21, “so shall it be in the days of the coming Son of Man.” And then He added Lot to the list, “Just as it was in the days of Lot.” So what do those 2 have in common? The world has gone corrupt, God is mad, He’s getting ready to judge. And what does He do in both cases? Pull the righteous out and then the judgment falls.

Dr. Reagan: In fact in regard to Noah I would argue that the type of the rapture there really is His taking Enoch out of the world. Enoch was a Gentile, that’s a type of the Church, He takes him out and then the Flood occurs and he preserves Noah and his family through the Flood as He is going to preserve the Jewish remnant through the Flood. But those are pretty clear symbolic types.

Dennis Pollock: There is one other one I would like to add but before I get to that Old Testament illustration I want to ask the question what does Mr. Rogers have to do with the Rapture of the Church?

Dr. Reagan: I would like you to answer that question.

Dennis Pollock: Then I will answer that question, believe it or not there is a significance. If you remember the theme song of Mr. Roger’s, “It’s a Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood.”

Dr. Reagan: Oh, yeah.

Dennis Pollock: Do you remember what he does when he comes in?

Nathan Jones: He takes his–

Dennis Pollock: Go ahead tell us.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, he takes off his sweater, puts on another one, and switches his shoes out, right.

Dennis Pollock: He gets comfortable. He sings about what a beautiful day it is. He takes off his sport jacket and he puts on a sweater. He takes off his dress shoes, he puts on some sneakers. He gets comfortable. Now you say what in the world does that have to do? Well that is the exact opposite of what Jesus tells us to do, and what we find in the Old Testament. Let me read what God told Israel to do when the Passover would arrive. He said, “This is the way you eat the Passover, with a belt around your waist, your sandals on your feet, your staff in your hand.” He said, “You eat it in haste.” Remember when you would eat too fast, and Momma would say, “Don’t gulp your food.” God says, “Eat it fast.” He says, “Keep your staff in your hand.” In other words don’t be like Mr. Rogers, don’t get all comfortable because you could go at any time. Now let me go over to what Jesus says, He says, “Let you waist be girded about.” Well you know you don’t undo the robe, you don’t get comfortable. Keep your lamps burning, don’t turn out the lights yet. In other words be ready to leave at any time. I think really both of those are telling us always be ready, I could come at any time.

Part 3

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum about the Rapture. Fellows let’s get into some criticisms that people often make about the concept of the Rapture. And the first one is this, many argue that the Church absolutely must go through the Tribulation in order for the Church to be cleansed. What about it?

Nathan Jones: The biggest argument I hear from people who write into the ministry all the time is that mankind has always had to endure some kind of Tribulation. The Church we’ve suffered, there are Christians suffering we are living in a time of great suffering. But they get their semantics mixed up. There is tribulation before the Church. But The Tribulation Daniel’s 70th week is a separate time period. It is a title not a verb so to speak. So yeah we have to suffer all the time, the Church is suffering. But The Tribulation is God’s wrath upon the world, it is different it is like the Flood. And the Church verse after verse does not have to suffer the wrath of God. I mean you can read Revelation 3:10 for instance, “Because you have kept my command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come over the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”

Dr. Reagan: Does the Church need to be cleansed by the Tribulation?

Gary Fisher: This issue is a spill-over from man’s tendency to believe he has to work his own salvation out. And back in the 1500’s there was a guy who nailed “95 Thesis,” on the wall because they had by that time worked it out that man had to work his own salvation out. And no, salvation is by grace, through faith and that not of yourselves lest any man should boast. And so the blood of Jesus is the only thing.

Dr. Reagan: Should be sufficient.

Gary Fisher: It is the only thing that can cleanse us from sin. And a million Tribulations wouldn’t be enough to clean man up to stand before God.

Nathan Jones: Amen.

Dennis Pollock: Let me add this to that, suppose a guy comes in the studio just covered with mud, just absolutely filthy. And I say, “Excuse me I need to cleanse this guy.” And I go and I find a gun and I shot him dead. I say, “Ok, he’s cleansed.” They are going to say, “No he’s not cleansed he’s dead. Not cleansed dead.” When you read Revelation, yeah there is a lot of suffering, but there is a lot of death. I mean probably billions of people dying. If you take it for the way it reads that is not cleansing that is just killing. And if the Church must go through that chances are we would never live through it anyway so it would be very hard to get excited about the coming of Christ. So no, it is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us.

Nathan Jones: Or even the partial Rapture theory where they believe that only certain people anticipating the Lord’s return will be taken, the rest of the Church has to suffer because they weren’t looking forward. But I’ve found again and again that is a form of Christian snobbery, this idea that they obviously they are in the group that is going to be raptured up and not have to endure the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: Well actually when you argue the Church has to go through Tribulation to be cleansed what you are doing is creating a Protestant Purgatory.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, and a lot of preachers in the old days especially, maybe not so much anymore would use that as kind of a hammer to keep their audience in line. Even my Mom used to tell me that she would have preachers that would say, “What would happen if Jesus would come back and you’d be in a theater watching a movie?” In other words boy, you’d be sure to stay behind.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, many critics argue that a belief in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture constitutes an escapist mentality.

Gary Fisher: I’m one.

Dr. Reagan: You’re going to confess, right here on National TV?

Gary Fisher: Luke 21:36, “Pray in order that you may have strength to escape these things.”

Dr. Reagan: And Jesus said that.

Gary Fisher: Jesus said that. Why did He say, “Why don’t you pray in order to have strength to endure?”

Dennis Pollock: Yeah. I mean could you imagine going up to Noah as he is about to get into the Ark and escape from the Flood and say, “Excuse me Noah but you are really being carnal here. I mean you are an escapist. If you were really spiritual climb a tree and believe God.”

Dr. Reagan: Ok, well I think that pretty well sums that up. Alright, let me ask you this, some of the critics of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture concept argue that it is too new to be true because they argue the concept didn’t even come into existence until the 19th Century. How about it?

Nathan Jones: Horse pucky. I think that is the word, I’m going to be a Tennessean like Gary here.

Dr. Reagan: You know Dennis usually says, “Bologna.”

Nathan Jones: Bologna, alright, well this is Texas so we use horse pucky.

Gary Fisher: All of the above.

Nathan Jones: The whole idea that Darby back in the 1800’s listened to some 15 year old girl, McDonald and just came up with this idea is just nonsense. It was talked about in the Bible. Now in the early church they were concentrated on just surviving, they weren’t concentrating on the Tribulation. But you can read Barnabas, and Papias, and Justin Martyr. You can go in the Middle Ages like Brother Dolcino. You can go into more current times Reformation Era William Witherby and James MacKnight. All these other people they talked about a Second Coming and a Rapture that are separate and a Rapture usually that is imminent, before the Tribulation. So it was well talked about before Darby came on the scene.

Gary Fisher: Well you can throw Jesus and the Apostle Paul in there too, brother. But I believe the strongest argument here is not to talk about what they believe First Century, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh and on and on. The question is does the Bible support this doctrine?

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Gary Fisher: Can we go to the board and find that doctrine built there? And I think we have already made a pretty good case for that.

Dr. Reagan: Well we have examples too in history of people discovering the truth of the Bible. For example in the Reformation, by the time of the Reformation everybody thought you had to work your way to Heaven.

Dennis Pollock: Right.

Dr. Reagan: Suddenly Martin Luther says, “Hey, that’s not what the Bible says.”

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, and when you read Luther you find that the biggest argument the Church of his day had against what he was teaching was we’ve believed this for 1,000 years, who are you little man to come along and tell us that we have been wrong all this time.

Dr. Reagan: And further more when it comes to Bible prophecy one of the problems you have is that the Catholic Church in 400 AD accepted the Amillennial viewpoint. And Brother, if you violated that you were burned at the stake. It was one of those doctrines that the Church is the Kingdom and that’s it, and you can’t argue anything else. And they suppressed all other writings they destroyed writings. We don’t know for sure what all people wrote during the middle ages because they were killed off and their writings were destroyed. The common man didn’t have the Scriptures. Really the revival of Bible prophecy occurred when people got the Scriptures in their hands in their own languages and suddenly they began to read it and say, “Hey, Israel is going to be re-established.” And the Puritans 500 years ago began to argue this and people said, “Well you are nuts it will never happen.” But they were just taking the Bible for what it says. And simply as people began to study Bible prophecy the concept of the Rapture began to emerge very clearly.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, and that’s the thing. People are studying it. Books are being written. People are teaching it, people like you. As a specialty with God’s calling on our lives and it is becoming much more widespread than it ever was before the idea of the return of Christ and the prophecies and I think that is all part of God’s plan.

Dr. Reagan: Another criticism that people often say, “Well the Rapture is not mentioned in the Olivet Discourse, in Jesus’ long discourse about the end times. It is not mentioned in the book of Revelation so how can you believe in the Rapture?”

Gary Fisher: I think it is interesting Dave that the people who use that argument will be the first ones to jump into Matthew 24, the Olivet Discourse and they will use Matthew 24:42 and 44 to argue the immanency of the Rapture. But then they maintain there is not rapture there. Sorry but I can’t play that game with you guys. I believe there is a reference there. I also believe there is a reference and Nathan has already used that Scripture, “because thou has kept the Word of my perseverance,” Revelation 3:10, “I will also keep you from the hour of testing that hour about to come upon the whole world.” So there are lots of references to the Rapture.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, in the midst of Revelation I forget the exact chapter but it is like a little parenthetical comment that Jesus makes, “I’m coming as a thief, blessed is he who watches and keeps his garments.”

Gary Fisher: Good one.

Dennis Pollock: “Lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” So there are hints to it. It doesn’t necessarily mean it is happening right there at that point in the book of Revelation. But it does clearly serve as a warning that Christ could come at any time.

Dr. Reagan: Dennis what if somebody is watching right now who is hearing about the Rapture for the first time; that Jesus is going to appear in the heavens any moment, to take the Church out of the world. Let’s say they’re not a believer what would you say to them? Just look directly into that camera right here in front of you and tell folks what they should do.

Dennis Pollock: Well the message doesn’t change. You know we may be talking about some new things that you haven’t heard of before, or you just heard a little about them. But we are not saying anything different then what Paul said, and what Jesus said 1,000’s of years ago which is you need Jesus Christ. We are all sinners, we have all offended a Holy God. And as we read Revelation we read about the wrath of God but it’s not enough just to see God’s wrath in a big cosmic perspective where He is angry at the world and He is sending judgment. His wrath is on every individual life and that is why we need forgiveness. And the Bible says, “God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son.” He loved you. He gave Christ for you that you don’t have to deal with the wrath, Christ took it for you. Receive Christ by faith, be born again, be forgiven and you’ll have the hope of Heaven.

Dr. Reagan: Thank you Dennis that’s wonderful. Folks, the thing that you need to keep in mind here is go read John 3:36, John 3:36 it is a sermon by John the Baptist and in that verse he says that every person on planet earth is either under the wrath of God, or the grace of God. God must deal with sin. And He deals with it in 2 ways, wrath or grace. It’s a glorious thing to be under the grace of God. It’s a terrible thing to be living under the wrath of God. You want to move from wrath to grace reach out in faith and receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Part 4

Nathan Jones: Gary, Dennis, it’s been great to have you guys on. I hope you come back next week and help us tackle another big issue.

Dennis Pollock: Yeah, we would love to.

Gary Fisher: Thank you, Nathan, for the invite. It would be a great honor.

Nathan Jones: Excellent. Well just real quickly look in the camera and please give your contact information for our audience.

Gary Fisher: Thank you, for me Gary Fisher.

Dennis Pollock: And mine is,

Dr. Reagan: Thank you guys. I really appreciate you coming and your agreement to come back next week. Folks that’s our program for this week. I hope it’s been a blessing to you and I hope you will be back with us again next week when our panel of Bible Prophecy experts will be discussing questions about the book of Revelation. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Nathan Jones and myself saying, “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near.”

End of Program

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