How could America be descending into post-Christian chaos? Find out with guest Jonathan Cahn on television’s “Christ in Prophecy”!
Air Date: July 4, 2021
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Tim Moore: Greetings in the Name of Jesus, our soon-returning King! I’m Tim Moore, the Director and Senior Evangelist of Lamb & Lion Ministries, and this is Christ in Prophecy.
I’m standing in our ministry studio in front of our brand new set. You know Christians live anticipating the Rapture, and eagerly awaiting the joy that will flood the earth when He who sits on the throne in heaven makes all things new. Until He comes, we here at Lamb & Lion Ministries look forward to utilizing this new set to glorify our Lord and Savior by expanding our ministry outreach.
This new backdrop is designed to keep our connection with you, our viewers, vibrant and exciting. It is also part of our plan to connect with new audiences and new generations with the message that Jesus is coming soon!
We are very grateful for those of you who have contributed to ensure that we stay fresh and engaging.
This program is first airing on July 4th, America’s 245th Anniversary. Over its long history, America has experienced ups and downs, but our current descent into ungodliness is accelerating. Our nation and its leaders seem intent on offending the God who has blessed us so richly. Cast adrift from our foundations of Christian clarity, our culture is drifting further and further away from the Lord. Even those without spiritual discernment can recognize that something is amiss.
Over the past 30 years, America has been systematically rejecting its own Christian heritage. And almost inexplicably, the ordered liberty that America once championed has morphed into unfettered personal autonomy. Reflecting the tragic observation in the book of Judges, America now embraces the ideology of doing what is right in your own eyes. As an inevitable result of that moral breakdown, the land that once regarded E Pluribus Unum, Out of Many, One as its national motto now seeks to divide people based on race and never-ending definitions of sexual identity. And, our nation that defeated communism is now flirting with socialism.
What happened? How could our City on a Hill become a nation poised to descend into post-Christian chaos?
Today’s guest will address those questions.
Jonathan Cahn burst on the national scene in 2011 with the publication of his best-selling book, The Harbinger. He offered an inspired biblical perspective on our national waywardness. Since then, he’s written a string of best-sellers, including The Oracle and The Harbinger II in 2019 and 2020. These two books offer additional insight into the prophetic warnings God has been sending to America.
Lamb & Lion Ministries had hoped to host Jonathan last year, but Covid disruption prevented us from getting together. Thankfully, we found a way to connect in 2021 at Jonathan’s headquarters in Wayne, NJ.
Part 2: Interview with Jonathan Cahn at Beth Israel in Wayne, New Jersey
Tim Moore: Well, obviously you have a gift for weaving together Bible prophecy, Scriptural truths, and what I will call nuance definitions of Hebrew words to communicate compelling truths. So, how did you come up with all the incredible insights that you share with us through your writing?
Jonathan Cahn: Well, it is the Lord. And again, it usually it comes, kind of like, I’ll use this word, but a download, that it comes usually over, it could be like The Harbinger was over two months of just, whoa, whoa, and I could not reproduce that. Same with The Oracle same with The Paradigm same with all those things came just like that, you know. And if just gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. And when I need the next key, it’s just someone says the word, or someone, so the Lord really just, I have no question, I don’t take any credit for it, the Lord, it’s the Lord.
Tim Moore: I’d like to turn to The Oracle first off, and so I was particularly taken by a series of incredible coincidences that you recounted in The Oracle. In hindsight it seems pretty obvious that there are no coincidences, but what are merely separate and seemingly unrelated threads of history that are being woven together by God Himself into a beautiful tapestry; and we see that oftentimes in hindsight, the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. For instance, you write about the journey of Mark Twain to the Holy Land, something I’ve talked about, he wrote a book called, Innocence Abroad, but that happened in 1867. So, explain the significance of that year, and how you came to understand it yourself.
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, well, there is a mystery, and it says the oracle, and it says the Jubilee and mystery is unveiled. The Jubilee was a time of restoration, and whatever you’ve lost you get it back; you return home. Well, there are no people like the Jewish people who have lost. And yet, God we know prophetically in the end times is bringing them home. So, could that mystery of the Jubilee actually be behind the restoration of Israel in the end times to this day? Well, the amazing thing is Moses said, he said, “Listen you are going to be scattered all over the world.” And it says, “A stranger will come to the land, and he will bear witness and he’ll say this land is cursed, it’s beyond hope.” And then Moses says, the first time he starts talking about, I’ll bring you back. Well, amazing thing, is could that have ever happened? A stranger did come to the land, and he came, and he bore witness, exactly, in fact he uses words that Moses said he would say.
Tim Moore: He certainly did.
Jonathan Cahn: And it was Mark Twain, who is not a believer. And he comes and he writes the book. He has no idea that he is being used for prophecy, and he does it in 1867. Now, when he does it, that year, becomes the beginning of the mystery, because he does it when it is hopeless, and all of a sudden strange things start happening in the land. And for instance, the same year Jerusalem after 2,000 years is discovered, biblical Jerusalem rises. The same year the land is released so that the Jewish people can purchase it, same 1867, Jubilee. And if you count 50 years, I won’t got into now, but if you count every 50 years, the next 50 years from there the Jubilee is 1917. What happens? Anything happen? The restoration of the land to the Jewish people. Count another Jubilee it brings you to 1967, the restoration of Jerusalem, Six Day War. Count another Jubilee takes us to 2017, first time in 2,000 years Jerusalem is proclaimed as the capital of Israel. Everything like clockwork.
Tim Moore: It is amazing. And 1967, you just touched on the fact, as you mentioned in your book, that the Ottoman Empire allowed Jews to begin buying land in 1867, and also Charles Warren began to explore Jerusalem and discover all of its archaeological roots.
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah.
Tim Moore: Fantastic coincidences. But there are no coincidences with God.
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, listen, you’ll get all of world history is happening that this could happen. I mean even you have a world war, World War I, yet look at where it goes at the end, you have a Six Day War. All these things are coming together including America. I mean, it is amazing, yes.
Tim Moore: With the other thing I will mention even about Mark Twain he is the quintessential American author, and he had such a grounding in biblical language, but he was not a believer himself. So, he was not going looking for something to be a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. He was almost an ultimate skeptic, but he wrote in such a way that he communicated clearly.
Jonathan Cahn: All the more amazing, that here is somebody who didn’t even believe and is used by God to fulfill biblical prophecy. And before the end of his life, he ends up running into a man, they have a friendship, it turns out to be Theodor Herzl who is going to be restoring Israel. I mean it is amazing.
Tim Moore: Amazing. Amazing. Well, you also like to reference the Jewish Parashat, or parshah; portions of Scripture that are allotted to be read each day within the Jewish community. Where did that allotment of Scripture portions originate, and how did you come to recognize the amazing overlap of Scriptures and the historic events time after time, after time that have occurred in the past 150 years?
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, amazing things. First of all, it came from the days of Messiah you had a portion that was read in the synagogues every week, they would open up the scrolls and they’d have a portion to be read. It began crystalized kind of in the Middle Ages, so it’s been in every synagogue you have the same Scriptures being read, they open the scrolls; they have the Scripture. Amazing, I started seeing, whoa this one happened there.
For instance, we mentioned Mark Twain, he comes there in his final, the finale of his journey in Israel he is walking the streets of Jerusalem, and do you know what is happening? They are opening up the scrolls and they are reading, appointed for that day is the prophecy that the stranger will come to the land, and he has no idea.
Then you look, for instance, at the next Jubilee, you look at 1917 and they are opening and they are reading about the first mention of Abraham claiming Beersheba. Well, that week, that Israel after 2,000 years, the British army restores, they capture Beersheba for the Jewish people.
Tim Moore: Yes, they do.
Jonathan Cahn: I’ll give you another one, I mean it is amazing, but another one is that look at that, there is a time when the Jewish people when the United Nations vote for Israel, to go back to Israel, and it is going to be called Israel for the first time, it’s going to be called Israel. Well, the thing is that the Scripture that day, it was a Sabbath, that day they were opening the Scripture and it is the Scripture of Jacob returning to the land and being called Israel, it is the birth of Israel.
And I’ll just mention one more. On May 14th, the day that Israel was born, it was a Friday night, and it’s a Sabbath, so there is an appointed Word. What is the appointed Word? It’s the appointed Word where God says, “I will bring them back to the land. I will plant them in the land. They will blossom and nobody will remove them again.” On that day that they announced it.
Tim Moore: Amazing. You know and we are familiar with a portion of Scripture when Jesus went to the synagogue He opened a portion of Scripture that day, read it, and said, “It is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Jonathan Cahn: That’s right.
Tim Moore: And it was that particular Scripture, on that particular day.
Jonathan Cahn: That’s right.
Tim Moore: So, we are familiar with that concept, but you have just opened up a world of beauty in how all those days have fallen prophetically just as God intended.
Jonathan Cahn: Amazing. It shows you how God is in charge of everything.
Tim Moore: Well, I am going to follow up with what you said, and what you expanded on with the year 1867, and the prayer shawl. So, let’s do it this way, let’s have a bit of a lightening round regarding some of the other topics you raised in The Oracle. So, what is Herzl’s countdown?
Jonathan Cahn: Herzl, was the founder of modern Israel, before he dies, actually in his diary, he writes down, listen, he says they had a congress, and they said, “You know what? Today I founded the Jewish state, nobody will believe me, but in at least 50 years the whole world will see it.” He writes it down in 1897, add 50 years, Jubilee by the way, Jubilee and it comes to 1947, when Israel is voted into existence. But when I looked even deeper, when you look at the date of his diary, it goes back to the exact, it leads you to the exact day, 50 years.
Tim Moore: When the UN voted for the Partition Plan?
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, 50 years to the day.
Tim Moore: Amazing. Alright, next one: What is the Masada algorithm?
Jonathan Cahn: Okay, another one, when the Jewish people lost Jerusalem; they lost Jerusalem, the Romans came in in 70 AD, then a few years later they lose Masada, the last stance. You got Jerusalem, and then Masada, it’s all over. But in the restoration of Israel, if you reverse it all, because now it is restoration, reverse it all, it means the Jewish people will return to Masada, reverse it, then they will return to Jerusalem. Well, they do. They return to Masada, and then, but here’s the thing, if you count the time in ancient times from the fall of Jerusalem until the fall of Masada, and reverse it from when they return to Masada, and that means they are going to return to Jerusalem, it gives you, it ends up pointing out to the day June 7th, 1967, the day that Israel returned to Jerusalem.
Tim Moore: Wow! Wow! You know what? I am looking forward to being in Heaven when the Lord points out all the ways that He wove history together, and we sometimes didn’t see it. You my friend have just peeled back some of the layers of mystery to reveal these things to us today. Alright, so moving on, what is the Jubilee in man?
Jonathan Cahn: Okay, 1967 is another Jubilee and what is the restoration? Everyone shall return to their land that they have lost. Well, Jerusalem is what they lost, so in 1967 Jubilee, the Israeli soldiers come on the Temple Mount which is really where it all began. Okay, now, what happens during Jubilee? You sound the shofar. At the moment that the soldiers returned to the Temple Mount a shofar is sounding, they hear a shofar. And the guy who is sounding it is named Rabbi Goren, Rabbi Shlomo Goren. Now, he’s not doing it because he knows it is Jubilee, he’s just doing it at the moment. Rabbi Shlomo was born in 1917 the other Jubilee. So, now, he’s 50 years old. He’s a living Jubilee. He is sounding the sound of the Jubilee. As they come they return to their land, Jubilee, and when I looked deeper, Tim, the name Goren actually means threshing floor, the place that they returned to was the threshing floor. And it also means, in Hebrew it means threshing floor, in Polish it means the horn. The horn. He was born for this whole thing.
Tim Moore: My goodness. Well, and we’ve just touched the surface on The Oracle so folks, get a copy of The Oracle if you haven’t read it, and please dive right in because this is just a touch of what is explained there in that great book.
Tim Moore: The Harbinger II focuses attention once again on 9/11, here in the United States, and observes the lingering fall-out from that tragic day. So, you actually write this, you said, “Since those days there have been those who have turned to God and the rising of movements for the purpose of turning and pockets of revival, but for a massive return, or a national turning, it has not happened. And America’s mainstream culture has turned only further, and more brazenly away, and in this as well, America is following in the ominous path of Ancient Israel.” Now, I would only submit we are also like Ancient Judah.
Jonathan Cahn: Oh, yeah.
Tim Moore: Blessed beyond measure, but also turning away from the God who has blessed us. So, let’s briefly review the four-parts of that book, The Harbinger II. In Part 1 you reintroduce us to Nouriel, who is your young man who is sort of the account writer of what has happened. And again, I’ve talked to you about the fact that his name harkens back to the light of God. But Part 2 is called the Unrevealed, what does that refer to?
Jonathan Cahn: Okay, the thing is The Harbinger II was the only book I held off for eight-years holding back from writing it because I knew when I wrote the The Harbinger, The Harbinger is about the beginning template of judgment, not the end. It’s what begins. When that first strike comes on the land that is the beginning. Then the nation has a window of time to come back. And if it doesn’t, great shakings come on the land. So, in 2019 and I’m praying, and basically the Lord leads, it is going to be The Harbinger II and I had a very strong sense, and I shared it from this podium where we are right now, that I believe that 2020 was going to be a year of great shakings and it was going to be the continuation of The Harbinger the mystery, so I had to write it at that time.
So, it has three parts, one is the unrevealed are the things that I didn’t reveal back then; there was more that I didn’t reveal then I did reveal in The Harbinger. So, the second part is the manifestation of what has happened since. And the third part is what is happening now, and where we are going.
So, I’ll just give a quick taste of the unrevealed. For instance, I never shared this, one is that before the strike of 9/11 came, that week that opened up all around New York City, and around the world, they are opening up the scrolls to that parshah. And what they opened up to is appointed for leading into 9/11 is the Scripture where God warns a nation that has known Him, that is turning away, that now the judgments are coming. And it describes the judgments. It says an enemy is going to come from far away, he’ll come like an eagle, descending, swooping down. And literally the first plane that began 9/11 it has an image on the back which is an image of an eagle swooping down. I won’t go through all that. But I’ll tell you, on the morning of 9/11 all throughout the northeast, the shofar, the ancient sound of the watchman starts sounding exactly as the events occur. We can’t go into it, but there is so much, but that is just a little taste of it.
Tim Moore: Wow, the unrevealed. And you have much more where that came from. What about the second part, or part three in the book itself, is The Manifestations. Where does that take us?
Jonathan Cahn: That is, what has happened since The Harbinger came out, it has not stopped. The warnings have continued, and the harbingers have appeared. And for instance, one of them involves that tree, we were talking about that tree before. One of the nine harbingers, originally, it didn’t stop, it continued on. This tree at Ground Zero and manifested one of the most powerful signs of judgments, I won’t go through it, but it is there. Another one is when a nation, when Israel was entering into judgment the signs of false gods, the images of gods appear in the land. Well, it happened in New York, the biggest image of a false god on planet earth, they converted the Empire State Building into a foreign god, the god Kali of death and destruction over New York City.
Tim Moore: Kali or Shiva which is it?
Jonathan Cahn: Kali. Which is linked to Shiva actually. And not only the day that they do it, by the way, the scrolls are being opened in New York City, and the scroll was God warning the nation do not make an image that is going to lead to judgment. And there is so much, I won’t go through the details, but even one of the most dramatic Supreme Court decisions, part of it America’s apostasy takes place on the day that God removed the wall that judgment would come to the nation.
Tim Moore: Wow. You know I actually, when I read that in your book I went to the internet and I looked up a copy of that picture, and sure enough on a day when they were putting pictures of bunny rabbits and animals, they ended with that photo. And you think: Who in their right mind wanted to put that false pagan god up? But they did. It was a demonstration, exactly what you are talking about, turning away from the true and living God to false and pagan gods.
Alright, well, the final part of your book, The Harbinger II is called The Coming, obviously that harkens to what is yet to come. What did that really deal with?
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, what is happening now, and where it is going. Now, I started writing, when I knew I had to write the book, for 2020, I knew I had to warn God’s people for that year. So, I started writing it January of 2020, and before, within two months the shakings come upon the land.
Now, when I look back, I looked back at the original book, The Harbinger it’s a chapter called “Things to Come.” It talks about how the shakings are going to come. It talks about the nation is going to be divided, there is going to be division. It talks about the break down of infrastructure. It talks about economic collapse. It talks about all these things that are happening, but it also gives a time thing.
There is a chapter in The Harbinger called, well, I won’t even say what the chapter is, it will give it away, but I’ll say this, the questions asked in the original Harbinger was asked: How long between that first shaking, and when the greater shakings come? Okay, now, The Harbinger II reveals it. Well, the answer is in ancient Israel it was 19-years, from the strike on the land, to the greater shakings. Well, when was the strike in the land with America? It was 9/11, it was 2001, add when is the 19th year? The 19th year is the year 2020, when the shakings come upon the land. So, literally, Tim, as I am writing the book, it’s being fulfilled. It’s happening. And one of the shakings that happens at the 19th year, and the prophet Jeremiah speaks about it, is a plague comes upon the land, and he actually links, actually I won’t go through it, but it actually has the mystery behind the plague is linked to something very major with Jeremiah, and very major with America, that he actually gives the place where it going to come, it gives the dates of when it is coming to America. I mean it is mind boggling. But we are living in the mystery right now.
Tim Moore: Here’s a question for you: Even as we begin this new year 2021, and as we continue to seem to descend into further paganism, secularism, drama, trauma and division, is God further lowering His hedge of protection around us, allowing us to experience the ramifications of rejecting Him?
Jonathan Cahn: It certainly seems that way. I mean look at what’s happened, one thing after another, the shaking. By the way I didn’t even mention, one of the things in the original Harbinger says civil disorder, disorder throughout the land. Well, it is all happening. Well, again that’s why, Tim and I’ve never had this with a book before, that I knew that I had to write it now, it had to write it and have it come out. I believe that, listen, we are following this pattern. And that window, I saw the danger of that window of grace, those years, which is part of the biblical pattern coming to an end. And now, we are watching, I believe, it coming to an end. There’s still, listen, at the end of The Harbinger II I talk about hope, and how to prevail no matter what goes on. You know there is hope with God, and what do we need to know for the future. But when you look at America if it doesn’t not turn back, it’s judgment.
Tim Moore: Well, obviously one of the ways that God allows judgment to come is He gives us over to a reprobate heart. So, whether it is embracing secularism, paganism, some of the things that we are turning our minds and hearts toward lead to these ramifications. So, all He has to do is allow the natural outcome of those choices to be manifest, and it seems to be happening.
Well, what would you say for Christians who are trying to weigh how to respond to a world that is growing darker by the day, how do we maintain our hope, and make sure that even as we are present day realists, we maintain an eternal optimism, and share the hope of Christ, and what God has revealed to us with the world?
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, all my books end with hope.
Tim Moore: Yes, they do.
Jonathan Cahn: For those who will say, yes, including The Harbinger II and what do we need to know? Well, the thing is this, we’ve got to be more all the more plugged into God. We have to be more connected to God. If you are not connected to God when this all happened, we need to be in prayer, we need to be in His presence. We need to be in faith because that’s what’s going to keep us.
And secondly, we touched, I know we touched this in the book that as the dark gets darker, the lights have to get brighter. So, don’t be afraid of it because these are, as we said, these are the days of Elijah, these are the days of the people of God, so be bold, don’t compromise because it says the eyes of the Lord are searching the entire earth, looking for the one whose heart is completely His. You be that one. You be that person. And He will lift you up. So, this could be our greatest moment. These are the moments that make Pauls and Esthers, and Elijahs and Moses. You don’t have Moses without Pharoah. So, listen, don’t fear, but this is your moment to rise up in God and go to higher ground, and God will use you mightily.
Tim Moore: For such a time as this.
Jonathan Cahn: For such a time as this.
Tim Moore: So, for those who don’t already know the Lord as Savior, this is the time to do as you advocated on The Mall in Washington to return, to return to the Lord. But for those who are His, we are to be watchman, sounding the warning, and also declaring the truth of how to receive hope through faith in Jesus Christ.
Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, that’s it. Don’t be silent. Now, is the time. If the darkness is going crazy, you know that what you have is powerful. So, don’t be silent. And the message is, listen, God is calling those who don’t know Him to return. He’s calling the Church to return to what it was in the book of Acts. And that’s our opportunity, that’s our chance right now.
Tim Moore: I am so glad I was able to connect with Jonathan Cahn at his headquarters at Beth Israel in New Jersey. He is right about the chance God is giving us right now. He is calling us to return to Him, as a nation, and as individuals. That is why Jonathan coordinated a Christian gathering known as “The Return” last year in Washington, D.C.
Part 4: How Then Shall We Live?
Tim Moore: We’d like to end today’s episode with a moment of application, what we call, How Then Shall We Live? So, before we close, the question remains: How bad is it in America today?
This spring, an Air Force Lieutenant Colonel was fired from his command position for decrying the rise of Marxism in the military. The Secretary of Defense has declared that climate change and the inclusion of transgendered troops are more pressing issues than the military threats that are rising around the world. Our Secretary of Health and Human Services is pursuing a radical agenda to promote unfettered abortions. And America is once again using its diplomatic clout to pressure other nations to embrace a dizzying array of sexual identities and so-called progressive ideologies. But progress in the wrong direction does not heed the biblical warning of Proverbs 14:34, which says, “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.”
As we’ve documented before on Christ in Prophecy, America is living out the warning of Romans 1. Gleefully rejecting the God who blessed us, we are being given over to an increasingly reprobate culture. Eventually, God’s patience will be exhausted, and we will fall under His awful judgment. For those to whom so much has been given, the judgment will be swift and overwhelming. Like Judah of old, we will be swept from the world scene.
What is a Christian to do? As Nathan Jones shared a couple of weeks ago, we have to stand on God’s Word revealed to Habakkuk: “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Where do you put your faith? In your bank account or stock portfolio? Those will be whittled away by the specter of rising inflation or economic collapse. In one of the political parties? Well, especially in recent years, those have both proven wholly inadequate to producing leaders capable of turning us away from looming disaster. In America itself?
When I was a brand new Air Force Cadet, seven basic military responses were drilled into my brain: Yes Sir. No Sir. No excuse, Sir. Sir, may I ask a question? Sir, may I make a statement? Sir, I do not know, or Sir, I do not understand.
And obviously when responding to a female cadre the beginning would be Mam. Well, occasionally, a new cadet would make the mistake of responding, “I believe so, Sir.” Cadre would descend on the hapless individual who erred so egregiously and verbally pummel them into better awareness. The enhanced training would eventually end when a cadre would finally ask, “Cadet, what do you believe in?” The proper response was, “Sir, I believe in myself, I believe in my God, and I believe in the United States of America.”
Well, 37 years older, and much wiser I pray, I can tell you unequivocally that I no longer have blind faith in America. It has disappointed me too often. And you should not put blind faith in me. If I have not disappointed you yet, you simply haven’t known me long enough. The only entity worthy of my entire absolute trust, and yours, is Almighty God. Jesus Christ has never disappointed me, and He will never let you down if you put your trust in Him.
He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Good News is that He has paid the penalty for your sins, meaning that He offers salvation from the wrath to come and an eternal relationship with God the Father. He will never leave you or forsake you. And, He is coming soon to gather all who have put their faith in Him.
Until that glorious day, this is Tim Moore for Lamb & Lion Ministries, saying, Godspeed!
End of Program