A Christian Strategy Behind Enemy Lines

Interview with Caleb Moore

Caleb Moore: Hey, it’s an absolute privilege to be here, be part of your show. And I’m excited because I get to do one more thing in your footsteps, only a little bit better, a little bit faster, and probably slightly funnier. So I will say, yeah, definitely, and better looking as well.

Tim Moore: Yeah, better looking as well. Well, as they might say at the Air Force Academy, fast, neat, average, friendly, good, good. Maybe fast, I don’t know about neat or average, but hopefully friendly, and both of us good, good. By the way, how do you like my cadet athletic jacket, the A jacket, with my squadron patch, Class of ’88, a class that’s great. And of course my SERE Cadre patch.

Caleb Moore: It looks like it fits just like the day you got it.

Tim Moore: Yeah, just like the day I got it. Well, folks, let’s be very clear upfront. We’re not going to get into any of Caleb’s training in a way that might stray into classified systems or tactics. Instead, Caleb, I wanted to explore your own experience with SERE, both the training you received and the potential that you had to put it into use. And obviously I want to discuss its relevance to us as followers of Christ in an increasingly hostile world.

Caleb Moore: Yep, and just like my testimony reflects my own beliefs and my own repentance that I have needed and accepted, so also the things like I’m going to say today are part of my own Christian salvation. Obviously they don’t reflect the Department of War’s beliefs. And that’s a privilege, that I get to share my beliefs in the same way that I would testimony at the front of a church today. And I’m going to stay within that circle, if you will.

Tim Moore: Obviously. Well, Caleb, where did you receive your SERE training? Did you still call it SERE, or was already transitioning to the pronunciation of SERE (seer), and what stands out from your memory or in your memory from that experience?

Caleb Moore: Yeah, they transitioned it to SERE. I don’t know where they dropped that E at the end, but at some point it went away in order to streamline it, I guess. And then I got to do that out at Fairchild Air Force Base in the state of Washington. So things that I remember about my experience, I remember it being kind of fun in a way because about half of it is the survival part, where you’re evading out in the woods. And to me it was just like camping, being raised in Kentucky and doing some accidental survival of my own in my youth. And so that was a fun time.

I did it right before the winter, so we got extra food despite the fact that the snow had not landed yet. And then I also remember very specifically getting in a little bit of trouble during the resistance portion because I thought it was kind of a fun thing that we got to pretend like we were POWs. And so I was having a good time and they needed me to take a step back and stop acting so happy about being there and act a little bit more POW-like. So those are my biggest memories from SERE.

Tim Moore: Yeah, the SERE, or SERE instructors, like to beat it into you if you were having too much fun during their training because really they were giving us a taste of what it would be like in an actual combat situation. Well, Caleb, when you personally were flying combat missions in support of US objectives overseas, how often did you think, “I might actually have to use my own SERE training on a given sortie?”

Caleb Moore: I think it was every single combat mission you step out with the possibility of needing that because, first of all, you have your ISO PREP. In other words, you are prepared and ready every single day if you do have to eject over enemy territory. Basically, where you’re going to go, what you’re going to say, what you’re going to do. And you flew with survival gear every single day, including a weapon, and maps, and water, all in a combat vest. So all 20 to 30 pounds of that were a constant reminder that today might be the day that you have to do some surviving out in the desert. So every single day I’d say.

Tim Moore: Yeah. Was there actually ever a moment when you thought, “All right, we have a problem and I might be taking a silk letdown,” in other words a parachute drop, “into the unknown.”

Caleb Moore: I did not really. I never got shot at personally. But I saw some surface to air fire on a couple occasions towards someone else and I thought they might have a bad day. But you did. You had one of those, right?

Tim Moore: Yeah, actually my C-130 crew, we were flying combat support missions over enemy territory in a time when we were told that there was no more surface to air threat. And yet, flying out Baghdad one night, climbing through about 5,000 feet, all of our missile warning systems went off, and we knew that there was a missile inbound. We immediately responded with the training we’d been given.

Miraculously, we were not hit, although we actually felt the concussion of the missile explosion as it got close to the aircraft. My crew, let’s just say, had a moment of great chaos. And I told everybody to be quiet, make sure they were okay, make sure the aircraft was okay. And indeed we were able to fly on down to Kuwait. But for a moment, I know everyone reflected on how close we had come to being a statistic, or at least potentially being shot down.

Of course, you mentioned all the survival gear. We actually carried a blood chit. I’m sure you do as well. That was a piece of paper written in whatever language, you know, the enemy territory was, saying, “Hey, if I get downed as an American aircrew, if you’ll help me, my country will be very well disposed.” In other words, we’ll pay you a lot of money. The one mission we had where we carried $250 million of cash, we thought, “Oh, we don’t need any blood chits. We’ll just carry a bundle of cash if we get shot down.”

But thank the Lord that didn’t happen. And so we were safe, not only that day, but all the other times. You know, Caleb, by all indications, the full bird colonel who was shot down in Iran recently was a committed Christian. So as you and I, brothers in Christ, have reflected on our faith even as we have served in the military, how important do you think that faith is in helping someone maintain hope in a challenging and threatening situation?

Caleb Moore: I think it’s quintessential. And I think there’s a distinct parallel between SERE Training and what we train to by being based in Scripture and by fellowshipping with other Christians. And so, out of the straight Air Force SERE guide, it says, “The will to survive is to find a desire to live despite seemingly insurmountable mental and/or physical obstacles.” And so, as long as we have that will to live in a survival situation, we’ll be able to make it out.
And that parallels with, for example, something that POW Louis Zamperini said. He said, “Where there’s still life, there’s still hope. What happens is up to God. It was all in his hands now, as it always has been.” And so we, as Christians, place our faith in something much bigger even than ourselves. And that goes beyond even just surviving and holding onto our life, or leading life here on Earth, but looking towards Heaven, and looking towards our time there, and looking towards our ascent there, if you will, and our faith in Him.

And that’s a much bigger hope than just being able to come back to the good old US of A and get the Chick-fil-A that’s going be waiting for us here. And so, if we can put our faith in that, then it’s going to be able to get us through that challenging, threatening situation.

Tim Moore: Yeah, I always think of the American Forces Code of Conduct, which came about several years ago when there were some POW situations where people didn’t always know how to cling to hope and reassurance that they would come home with honor, and so they came up with this code of conduct. And one of the statements is that we will always keep faith with the country and trust essentially that the government, the Armed Forces of the United States, have our best interest at heart.

And yet we know as Christians that all entities, including the military, even the United States, will fail at some point, but only the Lord Himself is always faithful. I tell that to my Marine friends. Yeah, Semper Fidelis is a good motto, but really, the only one who is truly always faithful is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, let’s get into sort of the true focus of this episode, and that is the application of every element of SERE Training, Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape, to our situation as Christians in a very hostile world. So when it comes to Survival, we know we live behind enemy lines, so to speak. The hostility of the world is becoming more pronounced every day. And the first thing we’ve got to do is just simply survive.

So unlike yours and my experience of foraging for food and sustenance in the wilderness of Colorado or Washington state, we have spiritual food that is readily available to sustain us throughout our natural life. What do you have to say about that?

Caleb Moore: So the first thing I would say is as far as the food that we have, it’s definitely interesting. Something I was thinking about recently is the number of times that we’re tempted or people were tempted in the Bible based on food, whether it’s Adam and Eve, whether it’s an inheritance that’s tempted away with food, and then finally you have Jesus Christ who is tempted with food during His days in the wilderness and He’s able to overcome that.
And so that is definitely one of those things that can be tempting in a survival situation. We have to, like you’re saying, base our needs in something greater than just our daily bread.

Tim Moore: Yeah, obviously, Jesus Christ, even when the disciples said, “You have no food,” he says, “I have food you’re not even aware of.” He was talking about the spiritual sustenance of his communion with the Father, obviously the Holy Spirit providing for him. And so whether it’s 40 days in the wilderness or just going about his ministry, he was constantly being sustained.

And I think too often, we as Christians fail to take a daily dose of the sustenance that God’s Word will provide in giving us that very same spiritual sustenance. It’s like we’re, you know, on the cruise to Heaven and the Lord said, “Hey, you’ve got all you can eat.” And yet some people just subsist on the mere rations that they think they’ve got to carry for themselves instead of feasting on His Word.

Caleb Moore: Yep, totally agree.

Tim Moore: Well, here’s another thing that is emphasized in the Air Force training manual when it comes to survival, and that’s to engage not only in self-care, if you have to treat your own wounds or something, but also in buddy care. The Air Force came up with the term of having a wingman. And so when I talk about self-care, I don’t mean self-absorbed care, I mean staying grounded in the Word of God from a spiritual perspective, as we’ve already said, and being intentional about nurturing our relationship with Him and helping the ones around us to be nurtured in their relationship with Him.

Caleb Moore: Yeah, so I kind of have two thoughts on that. The first is that much like flying in the airlines when the oxygen masks drop, they always say to take care of yourself before others, so you have to be able to have a relationship yourself and have a depth of faith yourself.
Matthew 7:3 says, “Why do you look at the spec of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” In other words, you have to yourself do some introspection and ensure that your own sins are not straying you from Christ. So that is one thing is to make sure that you are grounded in faith.
But also, if your training is unequally yoked, you’re not going to be able to take care of your buddy. So if you didn’t go through the Self Aid Buddy Care course, and take it seriously, and think about how you’re going to act in a certain situation and have the right training, then you’re not going to be able to take care of your friend when you are in that situation and he does have a wound, or blood loss in the leg, or something like that, and you’re just freaking out because you don’t have the training or you didn’t internalize it.

And so the same thing is true with Christianity. If we don’t take care of ourselves, if we don’t take serious the training that we’re being given through Scripture, through a relationship with a church body, then we’re not going to be ready to take care, and hold up, and mutually support our brother or sister in need when they are in that time of need.

Tim Moore: Well, as Caleb and I have been talking about some of our experiences in the Air Force, I can tell you that I have written down many of my own experiences in the Air Force and other aspects of life in a new devotional book entitled High Flight on Wings as Eagles. We’d be glad to send you a copy. Just call the number on the screen or visit our online store and ask for High Flight on Wings as Eagles. I think it’ll be a blessing to you.

Well, let’s move on to the word Evasion. During this life and until we receive our glorified bodies, minds, and hearts, we have to proactively evade the wily tricks of the enemy. And Satan would love to ensnare us in the concerns of this world. He would love to deceive, distract, discourage, and even destroy us if possible. So how do we effectively evade his nefarious attacks?

Caleb Moore: So I think the biggest thing that again we, when I go to Scripture and I look at a time when someone evaded Satan’s nefarious attacks directly, the time I think about is Christ in His time in the wilderness again. He’s tempted multiple times, temptation of hunger, temptation to test God, temptation to power. And every single time He responds with a scriptural basis when Satan had twisted Scripture in order to try to ensnare Him.

So He’s quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. “Man shall not live by bread alone.” Deuteronomy 6:16. “You shall not put the Lord God to test.” Deuteronomy 6:13. “You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.” So each time He responds by quoting Scripture. And I think that that is being scripturally based is our best defense as Christians against attacks that certainly will happen.

And sometimes attacks are a little bit more subliminal than others, and we always have to go back to Scripture because that is the source document for the way that we’re supposed to live our lives. And again, Christ gave this great example of how to do those things, so I think that that is the best. Do you have a different opinion on that?

Tim Moore: No, I think you’re exactly right. Another example, I mean, Jesus is the ultimate example, but you think, well, who of us can be like Christ? But yet, even in the Old Testament, in the Book of Genesis chapter 39, you think of Joseph who is sold off into slavery, finds himself serving in the house of Potiphar.

And Potiphar’s wife makes designs on this good looking young man, Joseph. And yet Joseph shunned her advances. A matter of fact, he evaded her or resisted her advances because he said, “Not only would be this be an offense to Potiphar, my master, but it would be a sin against God.” That’s exactly what he said in verse 9 of chapter 39. So he effectively resisted even that temptation.

And whether it’s food today, whether it’s sexual temptation, or any other thing, we have to flee from temptation. I think that one of Satan’s most effective strategies is to lull people into thinking that they are not even engaged in a battle. And that’s a classic tactic of every propagandist.

Caleb Moore: That’s right. And I think that you probably experienced this in SERE, where they try to get your guard down at some point, trying to make you think that, “Oh, we’re actually, we’re buddies.” In fact, in World War II, some of the most effective interrogators were affected because they would kind of become best friends, you know, bring you some good food, good drink, pack of cigarettes, whatever you need. We’re just buddies, we’re just talking.
And that’s how they would get the most information out of the people that they were interrogating. It wasn’t the guys who were doing extreme torture. It was these very sly, friendly guys that were able to pull information out and get their POWs to act the way that they wanted to. So I think exactly what you’re saying is true. It is to lull people into a false sense of security, and then from there, to be able to pull out information and change behavior.

Tim Moore: Yeah, it’s funny you say that. Even when I was a training interrogator, that was one of our most successful tactics. We would offer people food or we’d offer them some kind of a special favor, something that’s addressed in the code of conduct. But people, in a moment of weakness or in a sleep-deprived moment, because even in training, we would not let people go to sleep for about two to three days. And you start to have your defenses worn down. And without the ability to resist or to evade those wiles and those sly tactics, oftentimes they failed in resisting.

That brings us to the R, which is Resistance. And we know that in spite of our best efforts, Satan does hurl fiery darts at us. And quite frankly, sometimes they come from unexpected quarters, even friendly fire. And sometimes our own nature tends to lead us astray. You know, one of my favorite songs that has the words: prone to wonder, Lord, I feel it, prone to leave the Lord I love.

So, Caleb, how can a Christian heighten their resistance and recognize the fiery darts and our own inclination to wonder, and ensure that we as Christians, as followers of Christ, overcome these threats?

Caleb Moore: So I kind of think of it, the reason that survive and evade are first is because the whole goal is to never put yourself into a resistant situation, as you know. You never want to be caught by the enemy. And so just like you’re talking about with Joseph, what does he do? He doesn’t stay around and try to argue with Potiphar’s wife. He literally flees from the situation, right?

And so the same thing is true in a survival combat situation. You don’t want to put yourself in that bad situation. You don’t want to put yourself into a place where you’re going to get shot down. If you get shot down, you want to not put yourself into the hands of the enemy. And the same thing is true with Christian resistance. And when we know that the enemy is going to tempt us in extreme ways, we’re going to not put ourselves there, right?

We’re not going to put ourselves in a place where we know that we’re going to be tempted beyond our own capabilities. And I’ll let you talk to that in a minute with kind of the ways that you’ve done that in your life, not putting yourself in situations where you’re going to be tempted beyond your abilities or just in bad temptation type situations.

However, we live in the world, and we cannot just lock ourselves in a room or our kids in a room. And so we are given a prescription for how we’re supposed to act, and that’s Ephesians 6:13, which says, “Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil does come,” because it will, “you’ll be able to stand your ground, and after you’ve done everything, to stand.”

And then it goes on to say truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation with all these different armor pieces. And then the final thing is the sword of the spirit, the one offensive weapon that we’re given to be able to fight back as Christ did in His resistance. So yeah, you’ve had some, like, situations or maybe some different rules for life that you’ve not tried to put yourself to resistance scenario, if you will?

Tim Moore: Yeah, so even here, serving at Lamb & Lion and when I was in the legislature, I had a rule that I would not be alone with any woman other than my wife because I didn’t even want the appearance that I could enter into some kind of relationship that would be improper.

I’ve been very careful just in the words I use. I watch and guard my mouth. I had to learn that as a cadet because I used to have a very bad temper as a teenager. Let’s just say that as a fourth class cadet, I learned to keep my mouth shut and to not let even my anger get the best of me.

You know, I think another reality in recognizing how to evade is to realize that Satan likes to convince people, just as you indicated, that there is not a spiritual battle raging. But on the other side of that spiritual tactic, he would try to convince us that resistance is futile, at least in terms of holding back the tide of wickedness all around us.

And so I’m determined to keep my eyes on Christ and to be hope-filled. I want to make sure I pass that on to my grandchildren. Not my worries or frustrations with politics, or government, or anything else, but my hope and my absolute blessed hope that Jesus Christ is my savior and He’s coming soon.

That brings us to the last word, Escape. And I’ve got to tell you, as a ministry that proclaims a soon return to Jesus Christ, I look forward to the moment when Jesus says, “Come up here.” And whether that happens at the Rapture, when all the Church-Age saints, living and dead, rise to meet Him or my personal home going, I’m assured all of us who have trusted in Him have been assured of a place that He is preparing for us and that He will rescue us from the wrath to come.

Caleb Moore: Yep, and again, with SERE, the hope at the end, the light at the end of the tunnel is always to return to, like I said, good old US of A, with the great things that we have here, the freedoms that we have, the amenities that we have, whether it’s that 120 pump Buc-ee’s down the road or the chicken sandwich at Chick-fil-A. And the things of Heaven are just so much unthinkably greater to be able to look forward to than returning to the United States. So it’s definitely something that we can put our hope in and fix our eyes upon.

Tim Moore: So you’re a young man with a beautiful family and much of life ahead of you. How does the hope of Heaven motivate you day by day in a practical sense?

Caleb Moore: So just like we’ve talked about a little bit or alluded to, the big theme of SERE is to return with honor. So always thinking about coming back home and doing so with honor without giving up all the secrets and information and without speaking against the country that you came from.

And in the Bible, in 2 Timothy 4:7-8, it kind of alludes to this about Heaven. “I fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day. And not only to me, but also those who have longed for his appearing.”

So it’s the same theme here, keeping the faith, finishing the race, fighting the good fight to the very end, and then inheriting the crown of righteousness. And I think that that is an enormous motivation, whether you’re going through the resistance of, in my life right now, three kids under four years old. That’s SERE, that’s a form of SERE. Or whether you’re going through combat, whether you’re spending a long time away from your spouse.

Whatever you’re going through in life, there’s difficulties. And the locality of our difficulties are different for each person, but we experience those in a similar way, stress. And so that’s always what we’ve got to look forward to. No matter where we are in our lives, no matter what country we’re from, we always have the ability to fight the good fight, finish the race, and keep the faith.

Tim Moore: And keep our eyes on Christ and the promise of His coming. You know, Caleb, its proven fact, and we were trained on this in Syria, that a POW or anyone living in traumatic situation, if they lose hope, their chances of survival plummet. And so we were taught again never to doubt that American forces would rescue us. And we’ve seen that in practice and taken comfort and assurance that we will not be forgotten or abandoned behind enemy lines. As the saying goes, America will never leave a man behind.

But for Christians, God has promised not to leave us behind, and He really does not wish for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance and salvation through faith in His son Jesus Christ. Any last thoughts about how SERE, Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape, applies to Christians in the world today?

Caleb Moore: To wrap it up, to conclude and go back to the introduction, for this one individual who was stuck in Iran for three days, we dedicated hundreds of assets in the Middle East in order to go and pick him up, thousands of people working round the clock in order to get this one guy, one guy. And that was impressive, eye watering, and made you proud to be an American because that’s what we’re willing to do for one person because we value our troops so much, even just one guy.

And Christ, at the same time, would’ve died on the cross, would’ve gone through the horrible torture and death that He did for one person. And that is God, you know, fully God, fully man, coming to Earth in order to die for you, for one individual.

And so it is quite a parallel there that what we are doing SERE for has a much bigger meaning, and the ends, and the people fighting for us, in other words, Christ fighting for us on this side or when people are in combat here doing SERE, the people fighting for us are willing to sacrifice everything in order to get us across the finish line and return us home. So that’s something that we’ve got to keep our mind on.

Tim Moore: Yeah, God the Father gave His absolute best, His own son, for each and every one of us. And even if it had been just for me, Christ went to the cross.

Closing

Tim Moore: Well, folks, there you have it. Whether you know it or not, we are engaged in a desperate struggle throughout this life. The stakes couldn’t be higher. And while you may have secured your own eternal destination, Satan would like to minimize your impact in the spiritual war that is raging.

If you want to Survive, Evade, and Resist before you Escape, put on the full armor of God and go on the offensive. Join the battle and fight for lost souls of people all around you. Support ministries that have an impact in the Kingdom of God. Ensure the glorious, good news that our great God and Savior is coming soon. We will escape the wrath to come.

Well, Caleb, I want to thank you for being with us on Christ in Prophecy today. Always a pleasure. Look forward to next time we’re together in person. But I appreciate you not only as my son, but as my brother in Christ and friend.

Caleb Moore: Thanks so much for having me on. It’s an absolute honor and it’s a privilege to be able to do something like this, with you as my dad, and be able to show you up once again, both in my humor and in my hairline, so…

Tim Moore: Well, the hairline for sure. As one happy warrior to another… Godspeed!

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