America’s Suicide with David Reagan

Part 1

Tim Moore: Welcome to Christ in Prophecy. Nathan Jones and I are going to take a pause in our “Jesus in the Old Testament” series to discuss a book that is as important as it is timely. And we are delighted to have here as our guest today the author who is none other than Dr. David Reagan, the beloved founder of Lamb & Lion Ministries. Dave, we are so glad you are here.

Dr. Reagan: Good to be here, thank you.

Nathan Jones: Dave, this is an excellent book. I actually read the whole thing in one sitting; it was such an easy read. And I love what Tim quoted when he did the speech with Lincoln. And Lincoln even though he was in the middle of a civil war later he seemed to be kind of despondent, but at the same time he was so sure of the perpetuity of the United States in the future. Yet, in the speech he talked about the threats being from internal. He talked about dangers springing up amongst us, and that America would only die by suicide. Do you believe that Lincoln’s predictions for the United States are coming true?

Dr. Reagan: Yes, I do. And that’s why I titled the book America’s Suicide, and I did that because I believe that we have abandoned the pillars of American society. One of those of course is morality. The fact that morality that is based upon God’s Word. Because morality that is not based upon God’s Word is just man’s morality and that’s not very good. You go back to the days of the judges when everyman did as he pleased, and you had absolute chaos, which is what we have today.

But one of those pillars is morality based upon Christianity. Another of those pillars is our capitalist economy which gives great freedom. A third is the educational institutions of our nation which have been taken over by Socialists, Progressives, Liberals. And the fourth that I would mention is the family. And you might notice that the Progressives are very aimed at the family. For example, the Black Lives Matter Movement if you go to their website you will see that one of their items on their list of objectives is to destroy the nuclear family, which is their term for the godly family, the biblical family. So, these are the pillars that this nation was based upon.

And in the first chapter of this book, I talk about America’s Christian heritage and I point out that over and over all of the founders of our nation pointed out that this constitutional representative type system could not exist except on a moral basis where there is a common morality based upon Christianity where people have a moral feeling toward their lives and toward their government, and operating in a responsible manner. And if ever that disappeared the Constitution would collapse. And that is where we are.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Tim Moore: It certainly is. You know, Dave one of the quotes you did not cite because you had a number that were fantastic, some I had never seen before. But when I was a cadet at the Air Force Academy I had to memorize one of the first General Orders issued by George Washington on August 3, 1776. He said, “The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing in fashion.” He later said, “We can have no hope of the blessing of Heaven,” understanding that our providence comes from Heaven itself, God, unless we stop insulting the Lord with our impiety and folly.”

Dr. Reagan: Well, I’m glad you raised that point because it illustrates where we are today. Let’s say the chairman of the joint chief of staff today were to issue that statement, all hell would break lose. He’d probably have to resign.

Tim Moore: Well, here’s a question I have for you, obviously since 1980, when you founded Lamb & Lion Ministries you have been warning America to turn back from its wicked ways. You touch on your trip to Russia and you came home and said, “We are down the road, if we are not careful, toward spiritual oblivion.” But all those spiritual disasters have been growing and growing. What motivated you to write this book now?

Dr. Reagan: Because I felt like we had reached the point of no return. Now, that is something that disturbs a lot of people, particularly Christians because they believe there is no such thing. But there is. If you study the Bible and how God deals with nations there is a point of no return, the Bible refers to it, the point at which the wound become incurable. And it is a term that is used over and over with regard to nations in rebellion against God. Actually, Judah reached the point in its rebellion against God where God told Jeremiah not to pray for them. He told Ezekiel not to pray for them. He said your prayers will not have any effect whatsoever because they’ve passed this point, the wound has become incurable. And I felt like we had reached that point. You know I point out in the book that back in 1974 one of God’s prophetic voices to this nation was Dave Wilkerson. God raised up a whole group in the mid-70s, and Dave Wilkerson was one. And he ended his book called, “The Vision” by saying that he felt like we had reached the point of no return. And I underlined that in red and put a question mark after it, in fact I have it there in the book, because I felt like that was extreme. Looking back on it now I’m not so sure it was, because we have been going downhill ever since then. God gave us the administration of Ronald Reagan and things began to turn around, but the moment Reagan left office we got on the slide down. In fact, the very person who succeeded him George H. W. Bush came into office salivating over the new world order, and how we had to give up nationalism and become a part of the new world order. It is just the whole part of the end time Antichrist scheme. So, I think we’ve been going down hill and it has accelerated since 2000, just unbelievably accelerated.

And so, in the book I give a lot of examples of this and basically the one point that I make in this book, over and over from beginning to end is that our nation is in serious trouble because of one thing, we have forgotten God.

Back in the 70′ one of those prophets God raised up was Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn from Russia who came over here and said, “Let me tell you, you are on the same track that we were. When I asked the older folks in our nation, ‘Why did we go into 70 years of Communism and suffering as we did?’ They all gave the same answer, ‘Men forgot God.'” He said, “America has forgotten God.” And America has forgotten God. We are the most blessed nation in the history of mankind, and yet we have turned our back on God. We are snubbing our nose at God. We are to the point where, you know, in the past we have periods where we grew cold in God, we grew cold in our relationship toward God.

And there were great periods of revival that came when people began to pray earnestly that God would anoint our nation again. But I don’t think that is possible now because I don’t think we are cold in God; I think we are in out right rebellion against God. Shaking our fist at God. When you have a major member of the Congress, a representative from New York who is chairman of the judiciary committee make the statement, “We don’t care what any God has to say.” I mean we are in deep trouble.

Tim Moore: Jerry Nadler is the one who said that. That is terrible.

Dr. Reagan: Jerry Nadler, that’s right.

Tim Moore: Yes, sir.

Nathan Jones: Well, Dave some of the examples that you gave in there were just really compelling to me. Can you give us some of the more dramatic ones that you believe show that the United States is trying to basically commit suicide?

Dr. Reagan: Well, I give a whole list. For example, I talk about the fact that I can see this because of my age. I can see this better than most people today.

Nathan Jones: Which is true. Because when you talk about this subject, I mean I was born in the 70s and it always seems like we were an immoral country. But you remember a time period–

Dr. Reagan: Oh, no. I can remember a time when this was truly a Christian nation. I was born in 1938, I’m 83 years old. I can look back and I can see when I was growing up where you went to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, you had three or four crusades a year, Vacation Bible School, church was your life. We didn’t have television.

Tim Moore: And I would dare say, it was not just your experience our leaders back in those days.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, absolutely.

Tim Moore: You can point to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who had a long prayer the very day of the invasion of Europe, on the beaches of Normandy.

Dr. Reagan: Yes, six-and-a-half-minutes.

Tim Moore: Exactly. And today a president that would do that would be run out of office. And so, the leaders reflect the morality of our land.

Dr. Reagan: You know when I talk to young people today and tell them about when I was growing up what American society was like. Everything was closed on Sunday, except for the most essential things like service stations, and pharmacies. Everything was closed. People respected the Lord. They respected Sundays. Putting a game of the National Football League on Sunday was just unthinkable. Even Wednesday nights were protected because they knew people went to church on Wednesday night. And it goes on, and on, and on. You know I can remember—I give a whole list in here of things that have changed. And one of them is the vulgarity in American society. And the fact that when “Gone with the Wind” was released in 1939 it was held up for three months, three months because it had the word damn in it at the end, and that was a violation of the code. Well, there are no codes today.

Tim Moore: No.

Dr. Reagan: And I point out that a movie starring Leonardo DiCaprio had the f-word in it over 500 times in an hour and a half. That’s how far we’ve gone. And one of the things that I point out is schools. The fact that you look at education and you can see the difference. I give in this book the top public school discipline problems of the mid-1940s and the mid-1980s, 40 years apart the same poll conducted in the State of California by the Education Department and the Fullerton Police Department, and in 1940 the major problems were: talking, chewing gum, making noise, running in the halls, getting out of turn in line, wearing improper clothing, and not putting paper in wastebaskets. And I can remember that. That is what we used to get punished for. Mid-1980s: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide, rape, robbery and assault. And it is probably 100 times worse today.

Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah I remember that growing up. Now they’ve added homosexuality, and transsexualism and all that.

Dr. Reagan: And it has happened so rapidly. Listen in the 1950s our Congress added under God to the Pledge of Allegiance. And our Congress did a whole lot of things like that with respect to putting God into American life, the Pledge of Allegiance all of these things they passed in the 1950s. Today if somebody got up and said, “Well, we want to put under God in the Pledge of Allegiance,” they would be laughed out of Congress.

Tim Moore: You know around the world this is happening. We were talking about just recently how there is a pastor in Canada who is in jail for proclaiming Christian truth. There is a member of Parliament in Finland who is being prosecuted as we speak because she has adhered to biblical truth and the national prosecutors are even citing the Bible as a hate speech, just taking it in context.

Dr. Reagan: And it is coming here.

Tim Moore: And it is coming here. Yes, sir.

Dr. Reagan: Progressives would love to pass legislation right now that would make it a hate speech crime and put you in jail for saying that abortion is wrong, or that homosexuality is wrong.

Tim Moore: Oh, they are trying to do that. As a matter of fact, that is what the legislation at the national level is that Congress under Democratic control has already passed which would outlaw religious speech regardless of what the Constitution says. It would make the new found sexual freedoms paramount even to our constitutional freedoms.

Dr. Reagan: It is already true in Canada.

Tim Moore: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: I mean in Canada if on this program if we were broadcasting in Canada and we mentioned that we were opposed to abortion or same-sex marriage they would give us a warning, you do that one more time it will be a $50,000 fine and you will be cut off television.

Tim Moore: Yes. It’s coming here.

Dr. Reagan: It’s coming.

Nathan Jones: Well, when we talk about judgment is coming, on page 124 you list 5 different types of wrath. I didn’t know there were so many different kinds. Can you tell us a little about which each one of them are and how you see that affecting America.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, what page were you referring to?

Nathan Jones: 124 it starts with consequential wrath, and cataclysmic.

Dr. Reagan: Well, consequential wrath is the wrath we are most familiar with. I mean if you become an alcoholic and it ruins your family, and you lose your job, and it ruins your health that is consequential wrath. It’s the kind that people often refer to as sowing and reaping wrath. You reap what you sow.

There is cataclysmic wrath, that’s in disasters either manmade or natural disasters, like 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina. And these are what I refer to as remedial judgments. God will allow these from time to time to call us back to Him, to call us back to His Word, to call us to repentance.

And then there is abandonment wrath. Abandonment wrath is where God simply lifts His Spirit, it can either be a nation or an individual. The greatest example of an individual is Samson who was anointed by God and yet he reached the point in his sexual obsessions where God raised his anointing and Samson ended up committing suicide. But it can happen with a nation as well. God can lift His anointing, He can lift His blessing and abandon them to wrath.

This is what Romans 1 is all about, how God steps back and allows wrath to simply— He basically says to the nation you want to live in a foul mess, okay you can live in a foul mess. I am going to lower my hedge of protection. I’m going to let evil multiply. And it begins to multiply. And I believe that is where we are. We are under God’s abandonment wrath right now. He loves this nation. He’s blessed this nation more than any other nation. But He says in Romans 1 if the nation rebels, a nation that I’ve greatly blessed I will step back, and He says the first thing that will happen, the very first thing will be a sexual revolution, which occurred in this country in the 1960s with the hippie movement, free love and all of that sort of things.

Then He says if you refuse to repent I’ll step back a second time and there will be another outcome of that and that will be a plague of homosexuality. That’s why I wrote an article for our magazine one time pointing out that homosexuality is not only a sin, but can also be a plague, it can be a divine judgment where God allows it to multiply. And we are seeing this all over the place today young people thinking that it is cool to be bisexual or whatever because everybody else is. And its just multiplying into a plague.

And it says then if the nation refuses to repent God will step back a third time, and the third time will be an outbreak of insanity basically, is what I would call it. He says He will turn the nation over to a depraved mind. You know Jeff Kinley. Jeff Kinley is a great Bible prophecy teacher, in fact we’ve had him on this program several times. I’ve heard him recently speaking he says, “You know deceived people don’t know that they are deceived because they are deceived.”

Tim Moore: That is a great point.

Dr. Reagan: And this is where we are right now. This nation has been turned over to depraved minds. And in this I give you a long list of the kinds of things that Progressives are proposing in Congress today. They are unbelievable things, like the legalization of pedophile with consenting children.

Nathan Jones: Or the government supporting crackpipes.

Dr. Reagan: That is a depraved mind.

Tim Moore: We have had so much depravity descend upon our nation and I think you clearly documented—

Dr. Reagan: And so quickly.

Tim Moore: —how it is accelerating just in the last few years. Well we are going to take a brief break and when we come back we are going to talk about the hope that it is inherent even in a message like this.

Dr. Reagan: Amen.

Part 2

Tim Moore: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our conversation with Dr. David Reagan regarding his tremendous book America’s Suicide. Well, Dave you already touched on the message that God gave to Jeremiah and Ezekiel about how He did not want them to even pray for their nation because they were so far gone. We haven’t been given that command yet, that we should not pray for our nation, so indeed we should. But really even inherent in a message like this there is tremendous hope. What is the hope that we point to?

Dr. Reagan: Well, the first thing that I would point out is the fact that the Bible tells us over and over again that in the end times, right before the return of Jesus, society will become as evil, immoral, and violent as it was in the days of Noah, and we are witnessing that before our very eyes. It is one of the most important signs that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return and that gives hope, to Christians it does, it gives great hope.

Another thing is that we have always got individual hope, whereas the nation may not have hope we as believers have overwhelming hope. We have the hope of the Rapture of the Church which will occur before the Tribulation begins. We have the hope of being with the Lord during the Millennium and reigning with Him and living in a world for 1,000 years where there is perfect peace, righteousness, and justice. I can hardly wait.

And then we have the hope of eternity with the Lord on a new earth, a refreshed earth, a redeemed earth in glorified bodies where there is no longer any aches and pains, where we will be with the Lord in His presence.

Tim Moore: I can’t wait. So, it is sort of like Dr. Al Mohler said on one of our prophetic voices episodes, Christians are not optimists and we are pessimists, we are people of hope.

Dr. Reagan: Yes. And we are realists as well.

Tim Moore: Yes, we are.

Dr. Reagan: We are. But we have such great hope and I really try to emphasize that at the end of the book, but it is only for those who have put their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. For those who have not put their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, they just don’t really have any hope. I mean the hope that what the Bible says lies ahead in the Tribulation, the Antichrist and all this it is horrible.

And often I have so many people who respond to me, well, I’m a good person, you know, I think I will go to Heaven because I have tried to live a good life, a whole lot better than the guy that lives down the street from me. Well, of course we can always find somebody like that, but God doesn’t grade on a curve.

And recently when I was out in Santa Fe I went to the Calvary Chapel out there on Sunday and we heard a sermon by Skip Heitzig of Albuquerque who is a great Bible prophecy teacher. And he made a comment that really impressed me he said, folks, good people do not go to Heaven; saved people go to Heaven. So, if you are living on thinking you are going to make it on the basis of being good works, or whatever, you’re not going to make it because God doesn’t grade on the curve. It depends on whether on whether you’ve put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and savior.

Nathan Jones: I love what you said too about the Millennial Kingdom, I think we forget as Christians that we are dual citizens we might be citizens of our country here, but we’re really citizens of the country that is to come, and we forget that. So, as we are kind of strangers in a strange land now, we don’t recognize the country we live in, I love on page 146 you give us five things that Christians should be doing now to keep holding evil back and change society. Could you list those for us?

Dr. Reagan: Well, one of those things is to stand for righteousness.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Jesus says we are to be salt and light. And if we aren’t nobody will be. And that doesn’t mean that you have to be out there on the front lines on every issue, there are so many today. Pray that God will lay an issue on your heart, and He will. It maybe that He will give you a tremendous heart for aborted children. Or maybe He will give you a heart for homosexuals who are dealing with gender identity and that sort of thing. He may give you a heart for something else that is going on in our society. Whatever He gives you a heart for then ask Him, number two, what do you want me to do about it? It maybe that He wants you on the front lines. It maybe that He wants you to write letters to the editor. He may want you to run for office. There are different things that He will ask different people to do. He doesn’t ask everybody to do the same thing. But ask Him for an issues, and ask Him what you are to do about it so that you can stand for righteousness in a society that has just completely decayed and could care less about righteousness.

Another thing is to pray for courage because we all need courage. It is so easy to give in. What I see is happening in the Church today is that churches all over this nation, certainly all the liberal churches, but even conservative churches are deciding its just easier to get in bed with the world and kind of go along rather than stand for what the Bible says and know that you are going to be criticized. Yesterday I was reading an article about the Gaines couple that flip houses.

Tim Moore: Chip and Joanna.

Dr. Reagan: In this article the guy said, well, it is just horrible when we discovered that they attend a church where the preacher speaks against abortion and against same-sex marriage. Such people shouldn’t be on television. Well, all of us are going to experience this in our jobs whether you are a school teacher, or whatever you are, people are going to come against you more, and more, and more about the fact that you are wearing cross, or you’ve said God bless you. There was a lady in Kentucky who was fired a few years ago from her job as a bank teller because she said to the lady, “God bless you,” and the lady went to the bank president and said, “That insulted me, it sounded like something Christian.” And she lost her job over it. It’s just unbelievable. So, pray for courage.

Commit yourself to holiness. Now what does that mean? Well, I always say take a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle, and on this side put all your activities, on this side say, is Jesus Lord of what I eat? Is He Lord of what I go see at the movies? Is He Lord of my music? Is He Lord of my vacation time? Is He Lord of anything? That’s what holiness is all about on a practical basis, making Jesus Lord of everything in your life.

Share the Gospel. Share it with as many people as you can as quickly as you can because we are living on borrowed time.

And then put your trust in Jesus in everything. Put your trust in Jesus. Those are the things that we can literally do in this end times when the whole world is turning against us. And if you don’t believe that just go to Google and type in the word Christianity and look at the articles that come up. Full of hatred. Type the name Franklin Graham, look at the articles. Pray for him because this man could be assassinated any day, this is the situation that we are in in America today.

Nathan Jones: It is the antichrist spirit rising.

Tim Moore: It certainly is. I love what you said about stand. I used to in the legislature remind people of Margaret Thatcher’s advice which was simply, don’t go wobbly. That’s a British phrase for stand. And one of my favorite movies scenes is Braveheart when William Wallace portrayed in the movie was trying to convince his soldiers not to flee from the battlefield even though the enemy was charging toward them. And he said, “Stand.” As Christians right now sometimes we simply have to stand on the rock, on the Word of God and don’t go wobbly.

Well, Dave our viewers today will be very curious to know what is your next project? What book are you working on right now that is going to bless us in the months to come?

Dr. Reagan: Well, I’m not working on one right now because I just finished one.

Tim Moore: Okay.

Dr. Reagan: It literally just went to the publisher. And when it will come out I don’t know because all across this nation publishers are holding up books because they can’t get paper, it is sitting in ships off the coast. But the book that I just finished is titled, What’s the Difference in a Millennium and a Millipede? And the reason I titled it that is because over the years, the 41-years of holding conferences I’ve had so many people come up and they were enraged about something or another concerning Bible prophecy. And after talking to them about two or three minutes you realize that they knew absolutely nothing about Bible prophecy. And I always wanted to say, “Do you know the difference in a millennium and a millipede?” I never did it. I wanted to but I never did it.

Tim Moore: So, now you have written a book with that title.

Dr. Reagan: So, I did it with a book with that title. And it’s a basic book designed for the person in the pew, as all my books are. And this one simply talks about the fundamental viewpoints of Historic Premillennialism, Amillennialism, Post-Millennialism, Modern Pre-Millennialism and a fifth one, and the fifth one it talks about it is the one that really is probably the most widespread and that is Panmillennialism.

Tim Moore: Panmillennialism.

Dr. Reagan: I’m just a Panmillennialist, it will all pan out in the end. As I’ve said the first time I heard that I laughed at it, and since then I’ve had to bite my tongue because I wanted to say to the pastor who says that to me, and that is what pastors say all the time, “In other words you just admitted you are too lazy to study God’s Word.”

Tim Moore: Well, Dave we know that your book is going to be a great blessing to our viewers. I hope that you will get a copy. Nathan and I have already read it and it has blessed our hearts. So, even though the message for America is one of tremendous warning and gloom, the message that we shared today is one of hope. And on that note I hope that you’ll join us next week for our next episode of Christ in Prophecy. Until then look up, be watchful, for our redemption, our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ is drawing near. Godspeed.

End of Program