Can the return of Jesus Christ be preached with confidence? Find out with guests Randall Price, Tyler of Generation2434, and Jesse Randolph along with hosts Tim Moore and Nathan Jones on the television program, Christ in Prophecy!
Air Date: November 4, 2023
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Nathan Jones: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to the third and final episode in our three-part series of interviews held at the Pre-Trib Study Group Conference in Dallas, Texas, once a year. It’s a wonderful gathering of teachers and preachers of Bible prophecy, all who are passionate about the Lord’s soon return.
Tim Moore: In our first episode in this series, our guests filled us with wonder over the miraculous regathering of the Jewish people back to the Holy Land and the rebirth of the nation of Israel. In the second episode, we looked at the current rise of the Luciferian global government and thankfully, its future demise. Anticipation of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture actually encourages Christians to defend their faith in such a time as this. Let’s begin with the eminent archeologist, Dr. Randall Price, who will answer this question.
Part 1: Can the ancient past provide present faith and future hope?
Tim Moore: Well, welcome once again to another Prophetic Perspective, another conversation with one of our dear friends, Randall Price, and we are here at the Pre-Trib Conference in Dallas, Texas. And so, Randall, we’re always glad to sit down with you. For those who don’t know it, Randall has kind of a nom de guerre, he is known as the real life Indiana Jones, which is to say he is an archeologist who has been all over the Middle East, specifically Israel, to understand even buried in the ground, the truths that are revealed to us in Scripture. So, Randall what are some of the truths that you could share with us today?
Randall Price: Well, let me say the Indiana Jones now fits, he’s in the seventies and making a new movie, and I’m in my 70s.
Tim Moore: There you go. Yeah.
Randall Price: All right. Truths buried in the ground. Lots of things, I think God providentially left many of these things to be found at a time when we have more skepticism, more need to connect the reality of our faith with the evidences of the past. And that is one of the things archeology does. So, you don’t have to do much except just get on one of the websites that keeps you updated on archeological finds and you’ll see all the time there’s new things coming up. In fact some of the more, I guess, critical issues like could Moses write? Here he is, you know, oh, no, no, no one could read or write in those days. Well, now we are pushing back evidence to show that there was writing and very clear writing even before the time of Moses, but in the time of Moses as well. Hebrew, that could communicate that message. And that’s changing things for people who are critical scholars who were thinking we have to keep pushing the date of the Bible later in time, not in the time in which it actually happened, and that’s changing. Many other things in terms of personalities, events historically that said, couldn’t have happened, now we know they actually did happen. We have evidence of the people and even left things related to the events.
Tim Moore: Well, talking about archeology and proof, I mean, this is not something that was dug out of the ground, but I think God’s sense of timing, He has not only a sense of humor, but a beautiful, miraculous sense of timing. The fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls were found on the cusp of Israel becoming a modern nation, even of late. Since we’ve started going to Israel, Nathan and I accompanying Dr. David Reagan, places like Magdala have been discovered and excavated, and you can now go and see wonderful sights that we didn’t even know about a few years ago.
Randall Price: Yeah, Magdala now has another synagogue they just found. And they think there’s a third synagogue there because it was a very large community. And what is nice is here you have a synagogue from the very time of Jesus, First Century preserved very well. You can see even some of the roads blocked off because of the Roman invasion they were expecting. And all of this comes to life. So, the very facts of history have still left their imprint right there.
Tim Moore: They certainly are.
Nathan Jones: Well biblical archeology just fascinates me because it proves that the Bible is the Word of God. For many years, many centuries, people say, okay, there was no Chorazin town, or the Hittites they did not exist, only in the Bible. What are some of the discoveries, exciting discoveries that you have been finding just in the last, say, ten years that prove historical facts that the Bible is true?
Randall Price: Let me just go back to the Dead Sea Scrolls, because you mentioned that because I’ve spent 30 years of my life involved with that. I was the director of excavations for ten years at the site where the Dead Sea Scroll community was. And then the last ten years also working on the caves of Qumran, making new discoveries there. So here we had people who said, well, can we really trust the Bible, because the Old Testament, which we have, was translated from Hebrew manuscripts that go back a thousand years, that’s a long time, but there’s still another thousand more years behind there. So, in terms of transmitting the texts, we know that ancient scribes would have to write these things didn’t have glasses. A lot of them, you know, had very crude instruments. They’re looking at old, worn text. How do we know they didn’t make countless errors and mistakes so that we don’t have now what they had them? So it’s just kind of whatever someone thought was true. You really don’t have the Bible. You have somebody’s idea of the Bible.
Tim Moore: Yeah, that was their criticism.
Randall Price: That was their criticism. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found all of a sudden that missing length of time was gone. We have now the oldest copies of the Bible ever in existence, going back to 250 years or more before the birth of Jesus. And so, you can see how the biblical text was there. And comparing those text with a more modern text from which our Bible were translated, there’s almost no difference. There are some very interesting differences, and those are the things that I like to think about because it helps us reveal some of the controversy between Judaism and Christianity over the deity of the Messiah. But otherwise, the text itself is very stable.
Tim Moore: And there’s another testimony to ancient text and that is none other than Jesus Christ, who 2,000 years ago lived and would say over and over again to the scribes, the Pharisees, have you not read? And He would cite passages or ideas from the Old Testament and validate them over and over again. Whether it is the seven-day creation, whether it is establishment of marriage between a man and a woman, that’s a controversy that seems to have been found of late in our own society. But Jesus Himself validated the Scriptures because He was the author of Scripture. He was the Creator. And of course, throughout the New Testament, over and over again, there are passages cited from virtually every book to where we can trust that this is the true and living Word of God.
Randall Price: Yeah, this may be the first time in history that we’ve had challenges with some of these very basic ideas that came from Scripture. We’ve had a Judeo-Christian culture. Even before that there was the Jewish culture. But you look throughout the ancient East, all cultures, the basic questions of Creation, of the identity of who is a man, who is a woman was never in dispute. You know, wherever you go, this was the one constant that was common to all cultures and civilizations. But now we see a change in the West primarily, but it’s been moving around the globe as well. And that goes along with prophecy, that tells us that in the last days certain things will happen, people will fall away from the faith. People will begin to believe things they shouldn’t believe or have never been believed before.
And I know from my experience I have taught at the university level for decades now. And the Millennials group that I had a lot of times teaching, and now Generation Z as well. One of their big problems is they are losing their faith in record numbers. I mean, they may be brought up in believing homes. They have been brought up on the Bible, homeschooled, whatever it may be, and they engage or encounter a problem, some problem, and their roots are not something very deep for some reasons, it has never been a personal faith. And all of a sudden they just say, well, I can’t trust a God like that. You know, God let me down. God failed me. And I see this all over the place and it comes from what the Scripture said would happen that people could not endure sound doctrine. They’re not being taught doctrine at all, because people’s feelings are out there and they’re dealing with all these emotional problems, pastors tend to engage the problems, but not the solution. The solution is a deeper understanding of Scripture which if they understood, they would be able to trust God, you know, no matter what. It’s not about me, it’s about God. You know, I serve Him. He doesn’t serve me. And these are things that we see as we come closer to the time of His coming. People are moving closer to themselves and further from Him.
Nathan Jones: Well, how do you, well, that is a great question when we’re dealing with the millennial generation that says truth is subjective and their emotions are the reality, how as a professor do you teach them doctrine?
Randall Price: You just have to hope they will listen. I mean, we try to relate. And one of the things that’s where archeology and things have been helpful for me, because they want to see the reality of it. Now they want to see the reality of it in the world, that these things are historical and truly happen. Nobody wants to see relics; they want to see someone’s life. And so if you yourself, when you encounter these kind of problems even greater than some of them experience, you know, experience, not be able to get their favorite coffee or something, you know. But when we have a really problematic time in life, and you handle it in faith, that you say listen God is God. You know Job says, “though He slays me I’ll trust Him.” You know, God will always be God. He always is good, and does what is right. It’s my job to trust Him and wait on Him and maybe I’ll find out now, or maybe I’ve found out someday, in the future.
Tim Moore: I think that’s a very important key thing. You talked about they have roots that are not very deep. And even as Jesus talked about the sowing of the seed, we want our children, our grandchildren to have roots that are sunk very deep. That requires that we are intent about fertilizing, sometimes pruning, but building into their lives, and you said, as they witness. Sometimes the experiences of challenges I’ve had in my life are not happening right now, but they happened in the past, so I think it’s incumbent upon us to say, let me tell you what I have lived through and experienced so that they can understand that there’s nothing new under the sun in terms of the challenges, especially the spiritual attacks that we come under. And it really steels their minds and prepares their hearts for what lies ahead, because if we do not do that, let’s face it, you know, the old saying is God has no grandchildren, each one of them has to put their faith in Jesus Christ. But they have to have roots that will weather the storms that are blowing sunk deep into the rock that is our Lord.
Randall Price: I was thinking about a passage while you were talking in Titus 2, it talks here about Bible prophecy. It talks about the Blessed Hope. It talks about His soon appearing. And many people say that’s in the future, what does that have to do with me? It’s not relevant. I’m saying in this text it very much is relevant because it ties these things together. It says that we are to live and it tells us how to live, denying ungodliness and worldly desires, to live sensibly, and righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:12. And then it says, “Looking for the Blessed Hope.” In other words, how are you to live? You live looking. So, it ties together our life and it’s tied to this hope that we have. Then it moves on to say, “and everyone who has this, he’s been redeemed for a purpose of being a people, zealous for doing what’s right.” We want to do what’s right. How do we know what to do, what’s right? We have to come to the One who is right, and we have to have that hope in us. So, as we generate in ourselves this desire and hope. Are we hoping for a better car, electric car, you know, better house, a better job? Well those are good things, but are we hoping for the Savior who redeemed us? And be finally in a relationship with the One whom we love. And if we do that then we are anxious for Him to come, just like we’re anxious for someone we love to come home or to return from a trip or to get whatever, we have that same hope and that changes our life and makes us live differently and live right.
Nathan Jones: One of the new voices in Bible prophecy is the host of the Generation 2434 YouTube channel. Just Tyler. We tasked him to respond to one of the misconceptions concerning the doctrine of the Rapture.
Part 2: Do you have partial Rapture trauma?
Nathan Jones: A recent story came out that there was a report done saying that people are getting post Rapture trauma. They learn about the Rapture and it ruins their lives because they spend their whole life worrying about whether they’re going to be raptured or not or whether they’ll be left behind. And it’s called the Partial Rapture Theory, this idea that only some people will be raptured up to heaven. So to find out if that is true biblical doctrine or not, we brought Tyler here from Generation 2434. He’s one of the new faces to Bible prophecy. So new, in fact, that Tim and I really don’t know you very well. So could you tell us what Generation 2434, what does that even mean? And what is your ministry’s outreach? And then we’ll jump in to answering that question.
Tyler: Sure. So, Generation 2434 comes from Matthew 24:34, where Jesus says, “This generation shall not pass away until all these things be completed.” And so about two years ago, in in early 2020, I sat down and I felt like the Lord was calling me to get on YouTube, something I never thought I would do. And I was sitting there. I was saying, okay, well, I have to have a YouTube name, what do I call this? And so, I just sat there and prayed and that’s what I felt the Lord put in my heart was that verse, Matthew 24:34. And so I named my channel Generation2434.
Tim Moore: I’m glad that is what it’s harkening to. I’m glad we’re not going to have to wait another 400 years for multiple, more generations. And yet we always talk about the fact that the importance of passing this message that Jesus is coming soon to the next generation is absolutely critical. Thankfully, Christians for the last 2,000 years have looked forward to Jesus’ return, many of them very faithfully looking and expecting Him at any moment, and we do as well. So, Tyler, we’re glad He’s raised you up to continue to share that message. But when it comes to what Nathan talked about, this Partial Rapture, what is the concern that some would have today, even as they see the world growing darker around us?
Tyler: Well, I think the thought that the Rapture is coming soon.
Nathan Jones: Maybe let’s define the Rapture first, for someone out there and then let’s say what’s a Partial Rapture?
Tyler: Right. Well, I want to first say, in Jesus own last words when we look at the book of Revelation, He says, “Behold, I come quickly.” And so, there are a lot of people out there who don’t even want you to say “Jesus is coming soon.” But I would look at Scripture and say, well, Jesus said, I come quickly, I’m coming soon. And so, then people want to define soon. And that’s where things can get a little bit more fractured and murky. But the Rapture is very clearly defined in Bible like in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, this is when Jesus says, I’m coming to bring and gather all of those who are mine, who are believers, who are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, which I believe is the Rapture. And He’s going to call us up and take us to be with Him, like it says in John 14, you know, I go to prepare a place for you, so that where I am you may be also. And so, I believe that this is what is spoken of in the in the Bible, this is the Rapture. And I believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, so I believe that the Rapture is going to be occurring before the Tribulation Period. And so, in Scripture Titus 2:13 this is the Blessed Hope for the believer. And so, it’s sad to me to see that something that where we we’re told, you know, therefore comfort one another with these words in Scripture.
Nathan Jones: And yet it seems to be stressing people out? Why is that?
Tyler: And we’ve seen even I think it was CNN did an article on Rapture fatigue or whatever. I think that a lot of it goes back to, it is very similar to the days when Jesus was here the first time, you had the Pharisees who were very much looking at the Law and it was very bondage, and Jesus came with this message of grace and faith. And we know by Scripture that we are saved by grace through faith, not of our works, as it says in Ephesians. And so, this is something that’s really important to understand that when we are saved, the Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. And all those who are His, whether you’re dead in Christ or alive, will be taken in the Rapture. But there’s this message out there again of this law and this bondage of saying, well, unless you are performing at a certain level or unless your eschatology is correct.
Nathan Jones: Or even anticipating it.
Tyler: Yes, so you’re looking and you’re watching for the Rapture. If you’re not looking and watching, then you’re not going, or if you’re not performing to a certain level. And the funny thing is, almost every time the ones who are saying this, that you have to be performing to a certain level, they always believe that they are meeting that bar.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, yeah, that’s so true.
Tyler: But you might not be. And so, I’m concerned about that.
Tim Moore: You know, the thing about it is all of us are saved not on the basis of our works. And even as we are saved for good works, we fall short every day. Paul said, oh, what a wretched man, am I, not what a wretched man I was. But he knew in his own nature he would tend to stray. I mean, one of my favorite hymns is prone to wonder, Lord, I feel it. I mean, prone to leave the Lord I love. And so, if I’m relying upon my own faithfulness, even as Scripture calls me to aspire to faithfulness, then I’m hopeless. My hope is not in my faithfulness or my own understanding, my hope is in Christ and His faithfulness because He is always faithful. So, it’s just it’s tragic to me. I got to tell you, one of the worst jokes I ever saw played on a dear family member of mine was when her siblings decided that they would hide, and convinced my wife and I to do the same, so that one of my daughters would come home and nobody was there. And she thought she had been left behind. And it was traumatic for her for just a few seconds until we realized, oh my goodness, she doesn’t realize this is just playing hide and seek. And we had to come out and comfort her because no, she will not be left behind. She has put her trust in Jesus Christ. And I’m absolutely confident, more so even than I am sitting here talking to you, I have no doubt that Jesus will be true to His Word.
Tyler: Amen. And so right now, what I see happening, I think a lot because of my YouTube channel, I get messages from people all over the world. And people are trying to turn it from the blessed hope to this great anxiety. And they’re saying, yes, it’s coming soon, but you may not be ready for it and you may not get to go because you may not be performing well enough.
Nathan Jones: Well, then what do you tell them? What is the Bible’s argument that it’s not just some Christians that get raptured, but all who are saved who are raptured?
Tyler: Well, again, going back to Ephesians, it says that we are saved by grace through faith. And I believe that salvation is a package deal. So, the Bible says that whether you’re dead in Christ or those who are alive and remain at His coming, we will all be caught up together to meet Him in the air. And the thing that makes you worthy is the blood of the Lamb. And Scripture is very clear on that. We trust and we put our faith in the blood of the Lamb, we are covered in His righteousness. It’s not us. And so if He knows you, if you are His, if you’re covered in the blood of the Lamb, whether you’re dead or alive, when the moment of the Rapture comes, you will be going.
Tim Moore: Well, John captured this. And John, we all think about John 3:16 for God to love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. It’s an either or. And at the very end of that same chapter, he says he who believes the women as well he she who believes in the Son has eternal life. That’s it. If you believe in the Son, you have eternal life. But he who does not obey, the son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. And so to go back to your expression of people’s concern, well, do I do enough to obey? The obeying is in the believing. That is where we obey in terms of trusting the Word of God, the testimony of God, that the mechanism of our salvation is the blood of Jesus Christ. So, when we put our faith in Him, we are now sealed and we are delivered to eternal life. So, it’s an either the wrath of God abides on you, or you have eternal life. And that is our blessed hope.
Tyler: Yes, and that’s what I feel like is so important to understand that salvation is not a merit based thing. It’s a belief thing in Christ. And the Rapture is the very same. The rapture is not a merit based, performance based thing, it’s a belief based thing. It’s a faith based thing.
Nathan Jones: And if you take the Bride of Christ analogy to its full extent, when I married my wife, I didn’t marry half of her, the part that was anticipating the marriage and the other half had to stay behind and endure tribulation until it purified her to make her righteous, which is the argument for the partial rapturists that they have to go through a Tribulation time to purify themselves. The blood of Jesus purifies us from all unrighteousness, but He’s going to take the entire bride, you can’t leave parts behind.
Tyler: And He said on the cross, “it is finished.” We don’t need to earn any more of our salvation or be somehow purify ourselves more. The blood of Christ is the only thing that can do that.
Nathan Jones: Excellent.
Tim Moore: So there is an element to where we do encourage people to be looking for our Blessed Hope. In other words, there’s a promise of blessing just in the anticipation. Paul talks about this in the 2 Timothy 4:8 he says, “In the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness with which the Lord, the righteous Judge will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.” So, we can get a crown, as it is described of righteousness just for longing for, for anticipating His coming. But even that crown is not something that I deserve in and of myself, it is given, it’s credited to me by God. And even as I receive it, what am I going to do with the crown? Am I going to have an eternal neck ache wearing this giant crown? No, I’m going to cast it back at His feet just as an act of worship for He who has even credited me with a crown. So, it all points back to Jesus Christ.
Tim Moore: Many pastors today hesitate to teach Bible prophecy. That reluctance does not apply to Jesse Randolph, the pastor of Indian Hills Community Church in Lincoln, Nebraska. We were blessed to first meet him at the Pre-Trib Conference last year, and greatly encouraged by his enthusiasm. Jesse recognizes the benefit of studying God’s prophetic Word for the spiritual health of a church. Nathan and I would love to see you at the Pre-Trib Conference in Dallas this December. For now, let’s conclude with Jesse’s response to the following question.
Part 3: How do churches benefit from pastors teaching Bible prophecy?
Nathan Jones: This is the first one, and I’ve been to 15 of them where we have far more pastors, and that’s really encouraging to us because as our ministry Lamb & Lion Ministries, we partner with churches where they might feel like they are not strong on eschatology and the teaching of Bible prophecy, we come along and we go to conferences and speak and they use our materials. But to have pastors come here firsthand and then bring it back to teach. I grew up in churches that loved Bible prophecy, Joe Focht, Calvary Chapel and other churches that always taught it. Why do you, interest number one to come to a Bible prophecy conference and two I assume we’re going to bring it back to teach your church, right?
Jesse Randolph: Absolutely. I mean, I just to be candid, I mean, I’ve been a part of churches in the past where we would say we’re strong on Bible. You know, verse by verse, exposition and really strong on a lot of the different doctrines that the Bible teaches. But eschatology, end times in general tends to be kind of put on the end of the library, or the end of the teaching rotation, or it’s just the last thing, no pun intended, that we teach, and other things get minimized, or at least that doctrine gets minimized and all of its different complexities. So, you know, I’ve been part of churches that have been faithful in so many areas, but I think probably because of fear more than anything, pastors have been a little reticent to get into some of the details about all that the Lord has revealed to us about what will come in the end. And that includes everything from the Millennial Reign of Christ to the timing of the Tribulation, to the New Heavens and the New Earth. It just becomes kind of this murky mess. And we know from 1 Thessalonians, it’s opened right there, that it’s a great source of comfort to know that the Lord is going to come for His Church and take us to be with Him and Rapture us. But some of the mechanics of what that looks like and some of the order and sequence how God has meticulously laid everything out in His end times program is kind of left out of the equation. So, my goal in being here is to both encourage the faithful members of my church that have been coming here for years, but also to your point, to take it back and teach it faithfully.
Tim Moore: Well, I think it’s very encouraging to both of us to see you and others like you here, because, again, there is a fear. Some pastors have seen the fanaticism, the extreme speculation and sensationalism that sometimes is associated with Bible prophecy. That’s not where we go at Lamb & Lion Ministries, we stay grounded in the Word of God. We say test everything we say against Scripture, just like Paul did with the Bereans. And so, I also submit, and I’ve told some of my own pastors, yeah, I know you’re going to get around to it someday, but when? Because you mentioned Thessalonians when Paul planted the church in Thessalonica, we think he was there for a matter of weeks and he was already telling them Jesus is coming again. Which is why they wrote him and he responded in the letters we have. So, this was not something that we’ll eventually get to and, you know, advanced doctrines of the faith. No, this was part of the Gospel message. And so we don’t want it to be on the high shelf nobody can reach. We want people motivated A toward holy living, toward urgent evangelism, and keeping their eyes on Christ. And, boy, that’s a message that resonates and should with any church I would hope.
Jesse Randolph: If that’s not practical and pastoral I don’t know what is.
Tim Moore: Very good, yes, sir. Well, so tell us a little bit more, Jesse, about what message in particular about the Rapture, eschatology, because we could get into the weeds and we don’t want to be divisive, even those that would disagree, but what really resonates in your heart?
Jesse Randolph: Yeah, just the motivation to be always prepared, the motivation to live holy lives in Christ Jesus, as we’re called to do and told to do in many places in the Scriptures. To be on the alert, to be watchful. Those are–always when I come to the Scriptures and in fact, I preached Sunday night a message where I just did a little kind of sidebar in the middle of the sermon and mentioned the clarity of Scripture. I mean, praise God that God has given us His Word, but that he used men, as they would write out the Scripture directed by the Holy Spirit, to write with such clarity. You know, I’m preaching through the book of James is one of the texts I’m in these days at our church, and I just said, praise God that he gave us a guy like James to write with such clarity. You can’t read James and walk away like, well, I’m not sure what he’s saying. He was such a plain-spoken individual, and given the Spirit, of course, to inspire his words. But that’s one thing is the words that we have about the Rapture, the words that we have about the Tribulation, that that the Church will not go through. The words that we have about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb that we just heard about presented at this conference. There is such clarity there. And if you read the Scriptures sequentially, and if you read them submitted to the Spirit, you’re going to see what it reveals. And then that is going to lead to the kind of holy living that we are called to live on in this life, on this earth, in these bodies, in this flesh that we’re still in as we prepare for the Blessed Hope.
End of Program