Difficult Questions Answered About the End Times

Q&A Session

Tim Moore: All right, so we’ll jump right in. Let’s just get to a practical question that builds from last night’s presentation, and some of us touched on it today. What are some practical ways a person can go to the Jew first? And why do you think that Scripture talks about the Church as the Bride of Christ when Isaiah 54:5 also indicates that Israel is a bride?

Nathan Jones: The…What do you want to call it? The comparison of Israel being the Bride of God and the Church being the Bride of Christ is two different things. What’s interesting is that for once the Church is considered the Bride of Christ, but the Church is never considered like a daughter. You hear all throughout the Old Testament, the Lord compares Israel to a virgin daughter.

And so, you’ve got these ways of making comparisons so that you can understand the relationship, but that doesn’t actually mean that Israel is married to the Father, and the Church is married to Christ. It’s just talking about the deep spiritual relationships that combine the two. But I mean, we’ll be married spiritually in a sense that we’re united with Christ, but it’s not like we think of human marriage.

It’s you go to Sunday school and the Sunday school teacher tells you a story to help you understand a larger concept, that’s the point. So, yeah, we can’t say, “Oh yeah, Israel is the Bride of God and the Church is actually married to Christ,” but it’s just a relationship comparison.

Tim Moore: Pete?

Pete Garcia: Yeah, so I mean, if you think back to, throughout the Old Testament, God is dealing with mankind in general from Genesis 1 to Genesis 11. From Genesis 12, really through the Gospels, the focus is on the nation of Israel. And then from Acts on it’s, or Acts through Revelation 3:22, it’s dealing with the Church. So, I think with regard to Israel, she’s viewed as a wife, and you get this kind of she was betraying God by chasing after other idols.

Tim Moore: Hosea…

Pete Garcia: and after other Gods, and all that, through the Old Testament. We see that same comparison with the Old Testament saints. You see them, warts and all. Like, think about Lot. Yet, Lot in the New Testament is called righteous Lot, but you don’t get that perspective from Lot in Genesis 18-19. Like, “Hmm, that didn’t seem like that righteous guy.” But then Peter calls him–he was righteous.

So, I think the Church, because our righteousness doesn’t come from ourselves, it comes from Christ Himself in His sacrifice on the cross, that that’s why we are viewed as this radiant, betrothed virgin waiting for her husband to come back. And that’s just the comparison. But really, I think Israel is still the focus of this relationship that she was supposed to be like what the Church is, but she was incapable of doing that. And so, we are that New Testament, cleaned-up version, not because we’re better, but because Christ did all the work.

Tim Moore: Yeah, I think that is a point that Nathan makes that’s very valid. The Lord tries to communicate to us in ways that we can understand. And a marriage relationship is one that many people can understand experientially. And so, it becomes a picture, it is a metaphor. But as I like to say, when Jesus said He wanted to gather the people of Jerusalem like a hen gathers their chicks, that doesn’t mean that He’s saying, “I’m a big chicken.” It’s just saying this is a concept that you would understand.

And so, even the beauty of the marriage relationship and Jesus talking about He’s the bride, or excuse me, the bridegroom, we’re the bride. He says husbands love your wives as Christ loves the Church. All this is yes, but so much more. And so, it gives us a glimpse of the depth of the intimacy of relationship we will have with the Lord.

Well, speaking of marriage, we have a question that points to the Millennial Kingdom. So, Nathan, you’ve written about that, and this is something we talk about often. “Will we ever again have marriage and family-type relationships in the Millennium, or the new heavens, or the new earth?”

Nathan Jones: Well, the Bible doesn’t tell us in the eternal state, but what it says is that our glorified bodies will be like the angels in either that they’re given in marriage or married. In other words, sex or procreation. So, it looks like that perfect relationship that we have with Jesus is the satisfaction. It’s the be-all and end-all. And so, when we’re all in our glorified bodies once we get to the eternal state, that would mean that we’re no longer reproducing as far as the Bible’s revealed.

Now, we don’t know, I mean, eternity’s a long time, right? So, does God have future plans, do we need to reproduce? Will there be new creations? I bet there are because God’s a creator. We just don’t know, we just don’t know.

But I know, for instance, I have a relative, uncle of mine, who just lost his wife, and that’s all he can think about is that someday he’s going to be in Heaven, he’s going to marry her. And they’re going to have children, and all that. And it’s not at all what the Bible teaches because we…it’s hard, as humans, to get the bigger picture is that that relationship with Jesus Christ, that’s all we’re going to care about. He’s going to be the all-in-all for us.

Our human marriages, relationships, though the most powerful relationship we have, is nothing compared to what it’s going to be like to be with Jesus Christ and have Him there all the time. So, I don’t know. It’s kind of weird to think that my wife might be the neighbor down the street and not my wife, but it seems like that’s what the Bible’s kind of pointing to.

Tim Moore: Any of y’all remember the movie “Cocoon” with Wilford Brimley? Yeah, it was a great movie. And there was a scene in there with a young guy, Steve, whatever his name was, Guttenberg, yes. He was attracted to the beautiful alien, young woman, as she was presented. And she offered a chance for him to get to know her more intimately, and he had a certain type of knowledge, let’s just say biblical, in mind. But she offered a different kind of an interaction that was even better but different.

And I think sometimes there’s a picture of what Scripture is offering. We talk about our intimacy with Christ, our union with Him, is not Freudian and sexual in nature. It’s not something that demeaning, but it is a knowledge, which is why I do love the Old Testament phrasing of Adam knew his wife, Noah knew his wife. And so, there’s a knowledge that we will have of Christ, not sexual in nature, but intimate.

And so, it is more even than a marriage relationship when we are known and when we know Him, even as we are fully known now. You’ve got something to add?

Pete Garcia: Just to the family part, I know right now we each have family lineages. You can trace your roots back to whatever. I think in a spiritual sense, we have our family trees. So, I’ll have the person that led me to Christ, the person that led that person to Christ. And we may trace all those all the way back to one of the disciples or the apostles, and then ultimately to Christ.

So, I think that’s kind of a neat way to think about it. And this is just a theory, but it seems logical to me that we will have the spiritual family trees in Heaven.

Tim Moore: More important. All right, well, let’s get to a question that takes us back to the beginning. “Why were there no humans found in the fossil record?” Well, A, is that true, Jake? And what do you have to say about human fossils and records, as somebody who studied that subject?

Jake Hebert: Okay, I don’t necessarily accept the premise of the question. A lot of Creation, you’ve got to understand that as Creationists we’re sort of in a tricky position. We don’t have direct access to the fossils. So, a lot of Creationists are very concerned about should we use something as evidence or not? There’re concerns about providence. Can we prove that it actually came from where it’s said to be?

So, I understand that. I understand the tendency to want to be cautious, but there have been a huge number of reports in the 1800s, early 1900s of possible pre-Flood artifacts and human skeletons that we would say, as Creationists, would’ve been in flood deposits. So, a lot of Creationists don’t like to talk about it, but I have a hard time believing that at least some of those are not legit.

Tim Moore: Okay, all right.

Nathan Jones: Can I ask a follow-up?

Tim Moore: Okay.

Jake Hebert: Please.

Nathan Jones: Something in your presentation I wondered, okay, we talked about the longer lifespans. So, if we went back and saw Adam and Eve and their sons, would they all be like 9-10 feet tall?

Jake Hebert: Well, I don’t know exactly, but I’m kind of hard-pressed to avoid the conclusion they would’ve been bigger than us, yes. I don’t want to be dogmatic about that, but boy, it sure looks like it because I mean, it looks like everything else was. So, yeah, in fact, I think Augustine actually said something to that effect. He affirms that people used to live longer, and they were bigger. And he says, “Yeah, the Nephilim were bigger than everybody, everybody, but the pre-Flood people to us would’ve been giants.”

Tim Moore: Okay, I’ve got to follow that up. Since you mentioned the word, we avoid getting into the Nephilim chase, which is chasing the tail. But what would a guy who studies the Beginning have to say about the sudden interest in Nephilim? Nephilim.

Jake Hebert: Well, I think we’re just, I think some of it, maybe there’s a prophecy implication, maybe. I think some of it we’re just fascinated by the topic because it’s unusual. And maybe, deep down we’d kind of like to be bigger too.

Tim Moore: Amen, brother.

Jake Hebert: Let me just throw out some irresponsible theological speculation here. We know that in the Millennium people are going to live longer again, okay? It’s possible maybe they’re going to get bigger. And if that’s true, I kind of have a feeling that we’re not going to be looking up at them. I think it may be that at the resurrection we’re going to be bigger than we are now.

Tim Moore: Well, I can just tell you, some of us are getting bigger by, I’m bigger than I used to be. My belt loop proves that.

Nathan Jones: Wrong direction.

Tim Moore: Yeah, wrong direction, yeah, exactly right. Have you ever considered the fact that some of you all, well, most of y’all in this room are just youngsters when it comes to the Millennial Kingdom and really what God has in store? We all think we’re getting a little long in the tooth. Well, you’re just hitting your stride if you are Abraham and others, who were called at a much more seasoned age of life to do what the Lord had in store for them. All right, so simple question, “Any idea who the False Prophet will be?” Go ahead and reveal right now.

Pete Garcia: I won’t know who he is, but I think he’ll come in the spirit of like a Yuval Noah Harari, that every time that guy opens his mouth he just blasphemes God. So, if it’s not Yuval Noah Harari, I shudder to think of what worse is going to be.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, absolutely. There’s some interpretation that the beast that comes from the land would be the beast that’s the False Prophet, in other words, a Jew. And so, there’s people, like I’ve heard Alex Soros and every kind of Jew that they think is involved in some kind of Illuminati thing that could be the False Prophet. But no, it could be just some slick used car salesman, or a Joel Osteen-like. It might even be Gavin Newsom.

I mean, there’s just something about the False Prophet that just feels like a slick used car salesman, but he’s just a great PR person and he knows how to use the tech and things and has supernatural miracles, and the people follow him. Could he be Jewish? I think the Bible kind of points to that.

Tim Moore: Obviously, we do not get into the speculation of who is the Antichrist because we do not think that individual will be revealed until after the Rapture. And so, Satan always has a candidate ready to go. By that logic, there’s no way to know who the False Prophet will be because he will come and be associated with the Antichrist. So, there’s a spirit of Antichrist that’s evident today. There’s a spirit of false prophecy that’s widely evident today. And there’s heresy.

Anybody like to watch Wretched with Todd Friel? He called out just a few days ago a certain candidate here in Texas for the US Senate who is a heretic. And he said, “Let’s be very clear. I think his number is 555, not quite the Antichrist, but getting close.” Go watch the video, it’s very compelling.
And so, we need to call out those who would attempt to be in a position of authority and leadership when they are dis-proclaiming the true word of the Gospel. And there are many who are doing that today.

All right, so here’s a question. “When babies and children die before the age of accountability,” Nathan, you and I talked about this just recently, “will they receive immortal bodies at a certain time, and will they be 20 to 30 years old, maybe 29 like I’ve suggested, or frozen at a certain age? What do we say about children regarding age of accountability, regarding the promise to them for glorification and the mercy of God? And then what age perhaps will these glorified bodies be?” Three parts, if you will, Pete?

Pete Garcia: Well, I have a position on the age of accountability. I believe it’s 19 based on Exodus 30 in Numbers 32:11. Exodus 30, there was a ransom tax that nobody could pay if they were under the age of 20. And the way it’s worded in Exodus, it’s a ransom tax for the soul. But then you look, that alone is not compelling necessarily. If you go to Numbers 32:11, that’s where it talks about that nobody over the age of 20 could enter into the Promised Land. It says nothing about what people under the age of 20 believed or didn’t believe, or it’s just the age. So, those two verses there deal specifically with age and accountability, but I don’t see it anywhere else in Scripture, so it is conjecture on my part.

But when you look at human biology, the human brain doesn’t fully develop, at least the prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully, what we would consider adult until around 20. So, God could have created humans to be born and fully cognizant at the age of two, or at birth, or whatever, and He didn’t. He allowed the natural processes to develop.

So, I think since salvation is based on belief, and belief is largely shaped by what we take in as our worldview, those two correlate somehow. But I’m not dogmatic on that. But as to the other part, do babies, or do they stay babies in Heaven?

I think God allows them to stay children for a little. I mean, can you imagine being a kid in Heaven just playing with a lion? It would just be so fantastical. So, maybe that’s something that He gives them as a benefit too. But I think ultimately we’ll all be kind of the same age, in the 20s.

Tim Moore: Any other thoughts? I’ve known people in their 30s and 40s whose prefrontal cortex don’t seem to be fully developed. Dare I say there’s a few older than that who I’m still wondering about, reaching that age of maturity. I will just say this, you heard Jake, Dr. Hebert, say earlier that how old were some of these people in the lineage of Adam before they seemed to come to maturity by having children?

Jake Hebert: Well, somewhere around 65, maybe 50. Yeah.

Tim Moore: 65…Some of y’all better get busy, all right? But just the other day, our friend Terry Cooper, also on our board, was talking about how Jacob, named Israel, was in his 70s when he went and found a bride. Perhaps they were not mature in different ways.

So, I will say this, God knows. And a lot of people want to find the line before which a person is not responsible. And after which, I’m sorry, you’ve crossed the line, you now have hit that age of accountability.

Nathan has a son whom he loves who may not hit that age of accountability in this lifetime. And I’m serious because of his situation, Autism. And so, we don’t know. You know who does? The Lord God. And He knows when each person will be held responsible.

There was a point at which Pharaoh, having hardened his own heart for a season after season, for plague after plague, finally the Lord said, “All right, it’s locked in. I will harden your heart.”

I don’t know when that is, which is why I cannot discount the charge and the call and the privilege of sharing the Gospel with anybody. Even that person I’m convinced would never heed the Gospel, but I don’t know that. Do you know that? God knows. And so, I would prefer to leave this in the realm of, “Tim, can these dry bones live?” “No,” that’s a foolish answer. What is the wise answer?

Nathan Jones: The Lord knows.

Tim Moore: Oh, Lord, you know. And so, there’s some things I think that we are given to understand, and there’s other mysteries as Deuteronomy 29:29 says that only the Lord understands, and I’m okay with that. As curious as I am, Jake, I look forward to hearing about some of these mysteries, but some He may or may not reveal even about the beginning or the end. I’m just accountable for the ones that He has revealed.

So, I hope that doesn’t dodge the question. We’ve been asked whether children of believers and unbelievers will be in Heaven. Oh Lord, You know, and You who are all-merciful, all-righteous, all-just, and all-loving will blend all those things together in a way that I can’t even begin to fathom. Because, as I’ve admitted to y’all, I have a smaller-than-average brain. But the Lord, who has infinite wisdom, does know, and I’m okay with that.

All right, any other comments, questions? All right, “Do you believe that humanity will be allowed to endure the potential horrors of a singularity, or all the troubling spectrum of problems presented by quantum computing before the Tribulation?”

Or do you think, I think a few of us were talking earlier, that perhaps like the Tower of Babel, the Lord may say, “You know what? They’re getting a little bit too big for their britches. And before they think they can reach God-like status, I think we’re just going to bring this all to an end. What is your thought?

Nathan Jones: There’s a number of verses in the Bible that say not only is God the source of knowledge, but He’s also the provider or dispenser of knowledge. One of the great stories that came out of The Manhattan Project, you know, they were building the first atomic bomb, is that the young scientists, who a lot of them were atheists, would say they go to bed and the next morning they’d have the solution to their problems. They said it was like a miracle; they couldn’t explain it.

Well, God was giving them the abilities to, He was releasing that knowledge when it was ready to be released. But like Tim said, humanity gets to a point where we become absolutely self-destructive. And like, I think Pete did so well today. He pointed out the fact that we’re building systems that are just going to destroy humanity. They’re going to go out of work, and it’s crazy. There’s a point where God says, “All right, they’re going to kill themselves,” and then He steps in. And I think before we get to any kind of singularity, or something like that, the Lord’s going to step in and stop that. And I think that will coincide with the Tribulation era.

Pete Garcia: Yeah, I look at Luke 19 and 1 Thessalonians 5. It seems to indicate that life is somewhat normal. There’s a sense of normalcy to it right before sudden destruction happens, so. I mean, we’re probably in AGI right now, and we may even get close to ASI, but I don’t think it’s going to turn into Skynet this side of the Rapture.

Tim Moore: Remind people what AGI and ASI mean for those who are, it’s at the end of a very long Saturday.

Pete Garcia: Artificial General Intelligence basically is smarter than any particular individual on, an expert in a field on say physics or something. This system is smarter than the smartest human. ASI would be smarter than the collective knowledge of all humans in all of history together. So, that is like, from their perspective, Godlike intelligence.

Tim Moore: And we’re going to be sharing more and more through Christ in Prophecy and the Lamplighter magazine in coming months, if we can even wait that long. We are at the cusp of some dramatic shifts even in our own society. One of our board members, who you’ve been introduced to, serves at a university, and is going to be heading up an effort to address some of the threats that AI present.

Young people coming to college even today, “Why should I learn math? My computer can do math for me. Why should I learn history? I can ask my computer. It can tell me the answer to any question.” And so, the desire even to study and learn is beginning to erode and evaporate, let alone the jobs related to some of those knowledge-based professions.

This is a threat that is going to continue to mount for your kids, your grandkids, which is why they had to be grounded in truth lest they become despairing. Why do y’all think there’s such a rise of despair amongst young people? They have so many things pressing in on them. Are they grounded in truth? And that’s a challenge for each and every one who is a grandparent, a parent, or perhaps even a great-grandparent.

All right, “If every nation is to turn against Israel, then which nations will be blessed to go into the Millennial Kingdom?

Nathan Jones: That’s a great question. So, the point of the Tribulation is to end the time of the Gentiles where Jesus, we read in Daniel 2, He’s going to smash the statue, the Nebuchadnezzar statue of Gentile world powers and obliterate it. So, when it’s talking about that’s the end of the nations, the end of the human hierarchical structure, what’s it, 187 or 200, I don’t know how many nations there are currently.

Tim Moore: 193.

Nathan Jones: How many?

Tim Moore: 193.

Nathan Jones: 193, thank you. And I think one of them includes Palestine, right? Crazy enough.

Tim Moore: That’s correct.

Nathan Jones: But anyway, so the nations as we know it are obliterated. When it uses the word nations going into the Millennial Kingdom, it’s talking about people groups, not political groups. So, those who’ve survived the Tribulation and go into the Millennial Kingdom, their earthly bodies will form new nations.

Now, we know for sure that there’s one political nation that will survive, but the current government won’t, and that is Israel. Because Jesus Christ will be king over it all. I don’t think there’ll be a Knesset or a Sanhedrin, or anything like that. We will be the government in our glorified bodies.

The Bible talks about Egypt during that. They’re the ones who decide they’re not going to go up and visit Jesus, and the Lord shuts their water off. There’re talks about a road to Assyria, so up north in what is Syria or Iraq today, that there might be an Assyria. And there’s even a tiny hint that there might be a Russia in the future. So, those are the four nations that we know of. Two of them are kind of eh, but in the Millennial Kingdom.

But for the most part, not only is there going to be new nations, but those huge earthquakes that happen during the Tribulation will change the geology and the topography of the earth so much so that we’ll look at these maps from the old days and be like, “The earth doesn’t look anything like it.” And so, there’s going to be new nations, new boundaries, new lines, but it talks about people groups going into the Millennial Kingdom.

Tim Moore: All right, we’re going to try to go through a lightning round of just a handful more questions as I combine them, as we have just a few moments left. “Why are Satan and his helpers in the reptile family?” I mean, obviously Satan presented as a serpent in the garden, and many of these demonic beings talked about as being dragons, Leviathan, frogs, snakes. How does that hearken back to the creation there, Jake? You had some things when Nathan talked about the demonic.

Jake Hebert: I don’t know if I have a lot to say on that. God does, it seems like, use Leviathan as a symbol for the devil in places in Scripture. Although, I mean, I think Leviathan was a literal creature though. And dragons were real. Those were dinosaurs, just called by a different name. In fact, this is just some more irresponsible theological speculation.

I just came across a verse in Isaiah 34 the other day that might suggest that dinosaurs are going to be in the Millennium. I bounced it off some of my coworkers and they were like, “I don’t know.” But it talks about dragons being in the land of Edom. It’s clearly an End Times context. And interestingly enough it says, it’s talking about them, but it also talks about all these birds, and it says, “They will not lack a mate. They will not fail.”

It sounds to me like it’s saying they’re not going to become extinct. So, either there’s still some around somewhere hidden in the jungles, or the Lord may resurrect them. I don’t know. Or I could be completely wrong.

Tim Moore: You could have your own pet T. rex, huh?

Jake Hebert: In a Millennial Kingdom, you don’t have anything to worry about.

Tim Moore: That’s right.

Nathan Jones: Because of the destruction, we know at least all the sea creatures will be dead because of the oceans of blood and the river creatures, and then the atmosphere and all. So, I think you’re right. The Lord will, in the Millennial Kingdom, bring back many of the animals that are long-extinct.

Tim Moore: To His glory. Yeah, to His glory. All right, “Could New York City be Babylon?”

Nathan Jones: No.

Pete Garcia: No.

Tim Moore: All right, there’s a quick no. “Could UFOs be demons?”

Pete Garcia: Yes.

Jake Hebert: Yes.

Tim Moore: Yes, demonic for sure. “Do you see the worldwide rise of Islam playing out in Bible prophecy, or how do you see it playing out?”

Pete Garcia: I think it wipes out, the militancy of Islam, in my opinion, gets wiped out at Gog and Magog.

Tim Moore: Okay, amen. I actually believe, and we’ve talked about this on Christ in Prophecy, that what we witness today is sort of the last throws in a series of battles on a longer waging war that in hindsight may prove to be the Psalm 83 War, when Israel is finally able to live in relative peace without feeling threatened by its close-at-hand neighbors, which sets the stage for its far neighbors. So, once Hamas and Hezbollah, and some of the others close in, have been demilitarized, we may actually see the fulfillment of Psalm 83.

Closing

Nathan Jones: If you would like to order our Where Is the Promise of His Coming? 2026 Bible Conference, both available on DVD and flash drive, order online or call the number you see on the screen.

Tim Moore: This is Tim Moore and Nathan Jones saying, until we see you again on our next episode, here, there, or in the air… Godspeed!

End of Program