Mike Riddle on Evolution

What is the relationship between the Creation story and end times Bible prophecy? Find out with Mike Riddle on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Last aired on June 16, 2013.

Video References

Creation Training Initiative


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Dr. Reagan: Is evolution fact or theory? What are the weakest aspects of evolutionary thought? Does it really make any difference whether a Christian believes in special creation or evolution? And what is the relationship between the creation story in the Bible and end time Bible prophecy? For the answer to these and other questions concerning the origin of life, stay tuned.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our blessed hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague Nathan Jones and I are blessed to have as our special guest again this week a great creation teacher by the name of Mike Riddle. He is the founder and director of a wonderful ministry called The Creation Training Initiative. Mike welcome back to Christ in Prophecy.

Mike Riddle: Well, thank you very much for that.

Dr. Reagan: And folks, this is our second week to interview Mike. If you missed our program last week when we talked to him about the age of the earth and the veracity of the Genesis account of creation you can find that program on our website at lamblion.com. That is lamblion.com. Mike, this week we want to talk with you about evolution. And I know you prefer to call that evolutionism, maybe you can describe why you feel that way. But Nathan why don’t you kick off with the first question.

Nathan Jones: Ok, well let’s start with the most important: What is the strongest argument against evolution?

Dr. Reagan: I love that question because it just opens it up to every area of science.

Nathan Jones: The strongest.

Mike Riddle: Because one of the things, to start off with a lot of people say that the battle is between God’s Word- the Bible and science. No it is not. Because who created all the scientific principles? God did. And He is not in a battle with Himself. So true science will always support God’s Word and refute evolutionism. Well let me get some of the favorite ones I use. First one is called the origin of the universe, where did the matter come from to create the universe? Because we all know from good science and logic, from nothing- nothing comes. So that question right there is a killer to the evolution model because you can’t get the first piece of matter you’ve got nothing. But here is one of my other favorite ones, the origin of life. I love that one. But why? Well let’s just take the cell, start with the cell, one cell we’ve got about 60 trillion of these in our bodies, it is more complex than any machine mankind has ever made.

Dr. Reagan: Sixty trillion?

Mike Riddle: Right, 60 trillion. Did you know that is greater than the national debt right now?

Nathan Jones: Not for long.

Mike Riddle: Yes. But 60 trillion cells and each cell is more complex than any machine mankind has ever made. But we don’t have to talk about the cell. Let’s just talk about one single protein.

Nathan Jones: Ok.

Mike Riddle: Not the DNA or anything just a single protein. Our best scientists in the world cannot produce one single protein. And they come up with all these explanations. But here’s the killer, life cannot start in the presence of oxygen in the atmosphere, because oxygen destroys chemical bonds. So if there was oxygen in the atmosphere life could never begin.

So what they teach in our schools is this: the atmosphere was different back then, there was no oxygen. Well that is wonderful too, because if we take away all the oxygen we have no ozone because it is made out of oxygen. If we don’t have an ozone those ultraviolet rays come down and fry all life, everything is dead. So now what they are saying is life started way down deep in the oceans so the sun light could not reach. And I think, “Wow what a wonderful idea.”

But there is a process of water called hydrolysis, one of those fancy words, hydro meaning water. Hydrolysis literally means water splitting. Water we need to survive, but it is one of the worst places in the universe for life to begin. So life cannot start with or without oxygen, and it cannot start in water.

And then we look at just the structure of a protein. We have hands left and right. And our left and right hands are made up of the same things four fingers and a thumb. But there not quite the same because you put one hand behind the other and you notice your thumb and fingers are on opposite sides. Amino acids these are things that make up our proteins and amino acids, they also come in two shapes called left and right handed. And they are mirror images of each other just like our hands. Well here’s the situation, every amino acid in all biological proteins, in all life is left handed. But the natural tendency when we let it go by itself it always to bond left and right. Our best scientists in the world, every experiment we’ve ever done always ends up with left and right handed amino acids. Which is about like death, it poisons life. But life requires 100% left handed amino acids.

There is a lot to point out right there a scripture Romans 1:19 & 20, “God has given us all the evidence we need for believing in a Creator and no one has an excuse.”And I believe this is one of the great examples right there. Life cannot start by naturalistic processes. I think that is a powerful, powerful tool for people to use.

Dr. Reagan: Well I’m surprised you didn’t mention the argument that most people use and that is the argument of design.

Mike Riddle: Design, well this comes under design there. And we could go days and days on just design.

Dr. Reagan: You know all my life I wanted to see Mt. Rushmore, all my life.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And I finally at our 50th wedding anniversary my wife and I went to South Dakota and I saw Mt. Rushmore.

Mike Riddle: And it was created by the wind wasn’t it?

Nathan Jones: Just blew it together.

Dr. Reagan: Well I just stood there and thought you know isn’t it amazing what can be accomplished accidentally by erosion?

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: You know when you have something that is designed you have to have a designer.

Mike Riddle: Right, when you look at every creature, every animal, every creature you see incredible design in there that defies evolutionism.

Dr. Reagan: And if I were to say that Mt. Rushmore were created accidently by erosion a scientist would say I was insane.

Mike Riddle: That’s right.

Dr. Reagan: And yet he turns around and says the whole universe happened accidently.

Mike Riddle: Right. You take a look at our computers they didn’t happen by accident. But they are nothing compared to the human body.

Dr. Reagan: There has to be a designer.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Nathan Jones: Well Romans 1:20 says that, “For His invisible attributes that is His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what has been made, as a result people are without excuse.”We have no excuse for denying a Creator.

Mike Riddle: Yes, exactly.

Dr. Reagan: And at the time that Darwin wrote his book he even talked about the complexity of the human eye. But that was before they had microbiology and all of the things that we have now. And he was just sure that science would ultimately prove all this. And it seems the more science we get the more evidence we have against evolution.

Mike Riddle: Right, and then actually the best evidence against evolution is God’s Word itself because that is supernatural, it never changed. There is a lot of science in the Bible and it has never had to change. But our science textbooks we keep updating don’t we?

Dr. Reagan: Well you talk about a lot of science in the Bible and that is true. The Bible talks about how the earth is round.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Yet they call us flat-earth people if we believe in creation.

Mike Riddle: Right. Here’s another one, morality. What’s the difference between good and evil? How do you determine if something is good or something is evil? To ask the evolutionists that they really don’t have an answer. They cannot give a universal definition of what is evil and what it good. Because they talk about well maybe it’s my opinion. Well everybody has different opinions. Or it is what society believes, well different societies have different values. But only the Bible gives a universal definition. God commands us to be perfect. But you know what we’re not perfect are we? But He gave us a solution how to be perfect and that’s His Son Jesus Christ. So He gives the definition, He declares what is good and evil. He declares we have to be perfect and He provides a solution for being perfect.

Part 2

Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion of creationism with our special guest Mike Riddle.

Dr. Reagan: Mike let me ask you about DNA. I mean DNA is so complex as I understand it. Even Bill Gates has said it is more complex than anything he’s ever been able to program. How can a person continue to believe in evolution with the evidence of DNA?

Mike Riddle: Well, first of all the discovery of DNA and what we know about DNA has demolished evolution. But the problem is that is not being told in the school system, the education system. They are being told a whole different story about DNA and how it supports evolution.

But it doesn’t. You see the mechanism for evolution, how it works is we are supposed to get random mutations. Then through a series of random mutations there is a selection process that selects only the beneficial ones. Well there are some problems with that that are not being told. First of all mutations do not add new genetic information. They tend to take things away or maybe keep it neutral at best. But they have never been known to create new information.

Now we talk about information, let’s just take a look at one DNA molecule. Just one DNA molecule when we compare that to our modern hard drives we have in our computers, the compactness of the information, one DNA molecule is over five billion that is with a “B”more compact times more compact than a hard drive that we have today.

Dr. Reagan: Wow.

Mike Riddle: That’s incredible! So where did that vast amount of information come from? Now I’d like to give you, this is one of my best examples that I think really support design and a creator God.

The monarch butterfly, I love that thing. Now monarch butterflies starts off as a tiny, tiny little worm there, the technical term larvae and in about 20 days it grows to maturity almost 2 inches long. That’s right. Now once it reaches maturity it finds a special leaf and builds a silk pad on the bottom there. And then it connects itself and hangs in a “J” position. Then after a while you start to see this caterpillar start to move and when it starts to move it is going to build a chrysalis and it builds it from the head back. That’s not amazing yet, what happens next is amazing. Once that caterpillar in that chrysalis the entire caterpillar except the heart dissolves into a green liquid.

Now let me ask you a question here, this will be like a homework assignment question. Go home tonight turn yourself into a green liquid, what are you going to do next? That’s it you’re done. Unless somebody who is all intelligent pre-programs information into your DNA so you can reassemble yourself.

This is called pre-programmed information. Even if evolution worked, it can’t do that because if evolution worked it can only work for the here and now, it cannot see into the future. So I think the monarch butterfly is a great case of design and intelligence of a Creator.

Dr. Reagan: So basically you’re saying that the DNA has demolished evolution as a theory and yet people cling to it because they close their eyes to the evidence.

Mike Riddle: Yes, they close their eyes. And also because they are not being taught the truth about what DNA is all about.

Dr. Reagan: It reminds me of the book that came out recently with the title, You can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But you Can’t Make Him Think.

Mike Riddle: That’s right, we’re not being taught critical thinking skills anymore.

Nathan Jones: To me it reminds me of Romans 1:21, “For although they knew God, they didn’t glorify him as God or show gratitude. Instead their thinking became nonsense and their senseless minds were darkened.”They willfully wanted to be ignorant.

Mike Riddle: Right. And what I like to teach is critical thinking skills we do that in our classes.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Mike Riddle: And I give everybody three questions to ask when they are confronted with evolutionists. How do you know it’s true? Has it ever been observed? And are you making any assumptions?

Nathan Jones: Speaking of observations, tell us about the fossil record. Doesn’t the fossil record prove evolution?

Mike Riddle: When you look in textbooks it does prove evolution.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Mike Riddle: It certainly does. But here is another critical thinking question that I just love and I train our youth to ask this question because if you look in the textbooks we see all these transitional fossils there. But here’s the question: How much of that fossil was actually found, and how much was added in by the artist or assumptions? Because what we find are very few fragments of a lot of these fossils. The rest is just drawn by an artist.

Dr. Reagan: What amazes me is they will find one tooth, a tooth and then an artist will draw this Neanderthal ape looking person from one tooth.

Mike Riddle: That’s right, that’s been done.

Dr. Reagan: It’s all imagination.

Nathan Jones: When I was in 7th grade we had a guy come in put all these skulls on the table and say, “Look this is the progression of humankind. “And I asked him, “Are those real genuine skulls?”And he said, “Yes, yes they are they are real fossils.”Not a single one of them was an actual fossil. They were artist plaster casting. Yet he went in front of our class and told us that the fossil record proved it. But there is nothing in the fossil record.

Mike Riddle: No.

Nathan Jones: There are no transitional.

Mike Riddle: When we look at the fossils some of the things that we find, I show this in one of our talks, what does the fossil turtle look like? Exactly like a turtle. A bat there is a bat that is supposed to be millions and millions years old, this fossil bat, it looks exactly like a bat.

Dr. Reagan: What about a dog?

Mike Riddle: A dog they look like dogs.

Dr. Reagan: Have you ever found a dat?

Mike Riddle: Haven’t found those either. But you know alligators go back hundreds of millions of years. Guess what they looked like in their fossil record? Alligators. Every creature that is living today, if we can find their fossil looks almost exactly like it is today.

But here’s another one, fossil grave yards. These are grave yards where we find hundreds sometimes thousands of creatures, different kinds of creatures all buried and mangled together. And some cases dinosaurs buried with all different kinds of creatures. Now how do fossils form? Well they have to be buried rapidly by the sediment to keep the oxygen out and the scavengers out or you’re never going to become a fossil. Well how do you get thousands of creatures, these are places where we find fish, mammals, reptiles, all buried together. They don’t all live in the same zones. And we find most of these fossil graveyards in sediments laid down by water. So you don’t become a fossil graveyard by long slow processes, it takes a catastrophic event. And we find these fossil graveyards all over the world. Which is a great indicator of a worldwide flood.

Dr. Reagan: Well I was going to say that I read one time where a writer said that the fossil record isn’t really a record of historical ages, it is a record of an event.

Mike Riddle: Right.

Dr. Reagan: And that is a worldwide flood.

Mike Riddle: Exactly, it just screams of a worldwide flood.

Dr. Reagan: Well let me ask you this we discussed earlier the Gap Theory and how people have tried to use that to adjust the Bible to science. But there is another way they try to do it and that is called Theistic Evolution.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And many who believe in Theistic Evolution also believe in a Gap Theory. But what is Theistic Evolution and what are the problems with that?

Mike Riddle: Well Theistic Evolution is the idea that God used some form or forms of evolution during His creative process. And I hear this statement a lot of times, God could have used evolution. Wrong statement to make for a Christian. It’s not a matter of what God could have done, it is a matter of what did He do and it is in the Bible.

But here are some problems, the commonality to all the Theistic Evolution models which could be the days of creation, or be long periods of time which the Bible does not teach, nor does science support. The Gap Theory.

There is one called the Framework Hypothesis where Genesis is just poetic not meant to be taken as real history. And there are other forms out there. But they all have one basic thing in common and that is the idea of billions of years. Well again if we add billions of years into the Bible that is clearly teaching death before sin because what happens in those billions of years is death, decay and disease and that would all happen before sin. So if death was already there before sin why did Jesus Christ have to go to the cross and shed His blood and die and conquer physical death? We lose our foundation of the Gospel.

And here’s another one, Genesis 1:31, God looks back on His entire creation and calls it, “very good.”If we’ve already had billions of years of death, decay and disease, including cancer, we find that in bones, God just called cancer very good. That’s what Theistic Evolutionists adopt.

Dr. Reagan: That’s a good point. That is a very good point. Nathan you had I think a question about historical records.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, we were talking. You look in the Bible and obviously it goes back thousands of years. We go back most human records. Let me say all human records only go back a few thousand years. If we have millions of years why don’t we see a book from 100,000 years ago, or a cave painting or something that is really old?

Mike Riddle: Well, you really answered the question, if we had millions of years we would.

Nathan Jones: Ok, there you go.

Mike Riddle: But since we don’t have millions of years we don’t see it.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Mike Riddle: But, yes, when we look at just language itself what we call the oldest or earliest languages are very complicated. Very complicated, they don’t start simple languages.

Nathan Jones: Like grunts, ooh, ooh.

Mike Riddle: And these people, yes, they didn’t go with grunts. We only do that when we are watching television. But when we look back at people these people were not dumb back then. These were very smart people. You look at Adam and Eve the things they did. And one of my studies I did was Ancient Egyptian mathematics. And the people that were building the pyramids were using Calculus. They were very smart people back then they just didn’t have the modern technology that we have with computers. Very smart, very intelligent, lived a long time and accumulated a vast amount of knowledge. But yes the records only go back to about the time right after the Flood. Because the Flood what was the purpose of the Flood? Destroy all of mankind. And He did that. So our records will only back to about the time of the Flood, which is about 4,500, 4,600 years ago.

Part 3

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Mike Riddle regarding the creation story in Genesis chapter 1.

Nathan Jones: Mike, I’ve got a question for you.

Mike Riddle: Ok.

Nathan Jones: Carbon-14 dating all these dating techniques you hear about from evolutionists prove that the earth is millions of years ago. I hear many pastors and preachers say, “Carbon-14 dating has proven that the earth is millions of years old.”What do you have to say about that?

Mike Riddle: Well, first problem is we have a lot of people talking about the age of the earth who have never really been to the labs to see how these dating methods really work. And the first thing we need to understand is that every one of these dating methods, we call it radiometric dating, or radioactive, that is what we are talking about how one element changes another. Things change we get older we change. For instance put a banana out there what happens to it? It turns brown, and then it is only good for making banana bread at that point. So things change and elements do to, one element will change to another over time. Now the key part here is every one of these dating methods is based on assumptions.

Nathan Jones: Ok.

Mike Riddle: And they’re not mentioned in the textbooks. And we have actually shown every one of these assumptions to be faulty, in error. So if your premise or your assumption is false, your conclusion will also be in error. And that’s not being taught. I’ll give you some examples. Lava flows in New Zealand were dated at 275,000 years old, when in actuality those lava flows were made in 1949. Pretty big error there.

Nathan Jones: Mount Saint Helen’s.

Mike Riddle: Mount Saint Helen’s very good 1980, May 1980 these rocks were formed lava flows.

Dr. Reagan: And it also created a canyon that looked like Grand Canyon.

Mike Riddle: Right.

Dr. Reagan: Overnight.

Mike Riddle: Overnight. But these rocks created in 1980 were dated at over 2 million years old. Whenever we know when a rock was formed we never get the correct age. So why would we trust it when we don’t know when the rock was formed?

And the other thing is you can go to these labs and you can take one rock sample, date it by four different methods, there a lot of different methods that we use and come up with four very different ages. Ranging from 100’s of millions of years of difference in age. So they are basically not reliable.

And you mentioned carbon-14, the simple thing about carbon-14 after about 80,000 years all the datable carbon-14 is decayed out of something. So if we find something with carbon-14 in it, it means it has to be any datable carbon-14 has to be younger than 80,000 years.

Well let’s go to coal, The Institute for Creation Research, did some studies on this. And they took these coal samples. Now according to evolutionists coal is millions of years old they should have no carbon-14 in it. But they took it to the evolutionist lab to make sure there’d be no bias. Guess what they found in every coal sample? Carbon-14. That won’t get published.

Then they did the next study diamonds. Now diamonds are a very special kind of stone because they are made up of pure carbon. Now diamonds are supposed to be 100’s of millions to billions of years old, there should be no carbon-14 in those things. But they took these diamonds samples to the lab and guess what they found in every diamond sample? Carbon-14.

Dr. Reagan: Carbon-14.

Mike Riddle: So carbon-14 is a powerful testimony this earth has to be young.

Dr. Reagan: I’m also under the impression the carbon-14 dating for example one of the assumptions is there was never a worldwide flood.

Mike Riddle: Right, there is an assumption behind carbon-14 and that was proven false. The inventor of carbon-14, Dr. Willard Libby even noticed the assumption was false, but he ignored it because of his belief in evolution.

Dr. Reagan: I’ve also been intrigued by findings recently of dinosaur skeletons that actually contain soft matter in the bones. And it is supposed to be 100’s of millions of years old?

Mike Riddle: Right we are finding proteins, red blood cells, and tissue that is even stretchable and including we are finding carbon-14 in their bones too.

Dr. Reagan: How can that be if they are 100’s of millions of years old?

Mike Riddle: It can’t be. But here is the best explanation that we are hearing now, there is some unknown process that preserves soft tissue for millions and millions of years.

Dr. Reagan: Oh.

Nathan Jones: Oh.

Mike Riddle: That’s what you call a rescue mechanism again, not based on any observable science.

Dr. Reagan: Well, I want to go back to a fundamental question that we started with in the previous program, but it is so fundamental I just want to end with it. And that is: What difference does it make whether it took a billion years, or 6,000 years?

Mike Riddle: This is the best question to end on. Why does it matter? And it comes back again to the authority of God’s Word; Scripture. When do we believe it? When do we not believe it? See the world looks at Christians, were being looked at and see are we really consistent in our beliefs? If we don’t believe it how can we tell other people to believe it?

Let me give you a great example here consistency I love to ask this question: Do we as Christians really believe Jesus Christ died on that cross? And we’ll say “Yes.”But do we believe that He rose again on the third day? And we’ll say, “Yes.”And my question to that it, “Why do you believe that?”You are not there to observe it. And the answer is God’s Word we believe it by faith. But let me add one more thing. Did you know according to all known science you cannot be dead for three days and come back to life? So are you still willing to go against known science and believe the resurrection, and we’ll say, “Yes.”But then are you willing to believe that God created in six literal days as His Word says even though our best scientists can’t do that? The world sees this. They see many Christians say, “I believe the resurrection, but I don’t believe in the Creation.”And they see that inconsistency in there. We have become in the church a stumbling block for people accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior because we don’t accept it.

Dr. Reagan: You know one of my things that I have taught for many years is that we need to accept God’s Word for what it says, from the beginning to the end.

Mike Riddle: Right, exactly.

Dr. Reagan: If the plain sense makes sense, don’t look for any other sense or you’ll end up with nonsense. God knows how to communicate. He wants to communicate. You don’t have to have a Ph.D. in hermeneutics or imagination.

Mike Riddle: You don’t.

Dr. Reagan: You do have to have the Holy Spirit residing in you to understand all of God’s Word.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And I’ve often made the point that there is a tremendous relationship between the beginning of the Bible and the end of the Bible.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: If you start off spiritualizing the story of Creation you will probably end up by spiritualizing what the Bible teaches about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. And to me you’ve got to take both of them for what they say.

Mike Riddle: Yeah, they go hand-in-hand. What we lose in Genesis we get back again in the book of Revelation.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Mike Riddle: It’s amazing the correlation between those two books.

Dr. Reagan: That’s right. And they need to be approached from the viewpoint that they are understandable, that God wants you to understand.

Mike Riddle: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: You know when Henry Morris the founder of The Institute for Creation Research, wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation he started out by saying, “I’m writing this commentary because people say that the book of Revelation is hard to understand. They’re wrong. “He said, “It’s not hard to understand, it’s hard to believe. If you will believe it you will understand it.”Same true of the Genesis story.

Mike Riddle: Exactly.

Nathan Jones: But isn’t that the same with evolution. We base our belief in God on faith. But doesn’t evolution also, it’s a faith system. It’s a religion isn’t it?

Mike Riddle: Ultimately both have to be accepted by faith, ultimately do. Then it comes down to a matter of this, again, what does your faith have to offer you? Your faith in evolution offers me nothing because when I say, “Who am I?”are we just a chance accident, or are we made in the image and likeness of God.

Nathan Jones: Freedom to sin right?

Mike Riddle: Then it comes down to the ultimate question, “What happens when we die?” Do I just become nothing?

Dr. Reagan: Dave Hunt put it this way he said, “Can you stop and think for a moment about what is the greatest hope of an Atheist? The greatest hope is that there is nothing after death.”

Mike Riddle: Right, exactly.

Dr. Reagan: And our hope is we are going to live eternally with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Part 4

Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Mike Riddle. Mike would you mind telling our audience how they can get in touch with your ministry?

Mike Riddle: Sure if people want to learn more about our training courses where we come to your church and do these one day training classes they can go to our website: creationtraining.org. That is all one word: creationtraining.org.

Dr. Reagan: And they can get on your newsletter?

Mike Riddle: Yes, they can.

Dr. Reagan: And they can find out about all the resources that you have put out there?

Mike Riddle: That’s correct.

Dr. Reagan: Well folks I hope you will go to that website. And I hope you will try to get Mike invited to your church to conduct one of these seminars. That’s our program for this week. Until next week the Lord willing this is Dave Reagan speaking for Nathan Jones and myself saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”

End of Program

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