Panel on Prophetic Issues

Will Islam produce the Antichrist? Find out with guest Gary Fisher on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Air Date: December 6, 2015.

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Dr. Reagan: We at Lamb & Lion Ministries are constantly bombarded with questions about Bible prophecy, and we welcome those questions. In today’s program, some Bible prophecy experts are going to join me in responding to some of these questions. Stay tuned.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. I’m delighted to have a special guest with us today and that is Gary Fisher. Gary is the founder and director of Lion of Judah Ministries in Franklin, Tennessee which is a suburb of Nashville. Right?

Gary Fisher: Right.

Dr. Reagan: Well we are glad to have you down here today, Brother.

Gary Fisher: Well I feel very much at home thank you very much.

Dr. Reagan: You founded that ministry like 21 years ago.

Gary Fisher: Twenty-one years.

Dr. Reagan: And to help me interview Gary we have with us Nathan Jones. Nathan is our web minister and also our associate evangelist here at Lamb & Lion. And I want to jump right into this guys. Today I think some people are reading headlines into Bible prophecy which is always a problem.

Gary Fisher: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: With respects to Muslims in particular. Because of the ascendancy of Islam in these days once Communism collapsed the void was filled by Islam. We have a lot of, I won’t say a lot, but we have some Bible prophecy teachers who are beginning to say, “You know we think the Antichrist is going to be a Muslim.” How about it is the Antichrist going to be a Muslim?

Gary Fisher: Well according to Daniel 9:26 the Antichrist will come from the people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary. We know from history that was the Romans and the Fifth Legion of the Romans. So, if you want to take that literally it insists that it comes from Rome, and possibly even the literal city of Rome.

Dr. Reagan: Yes. So, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: In fulfillment of that prophecy. And it says the Antichrist is going to come from those people. Now they would respond to that by saying, “Well we think those legions were made up of people from the Middle East and not really made up of Romans.”

Gary Fisher: Yeah, I’ve heard that.

Nathan Jones: It’s not right.

Dr. Reagan: But it’s not true.

Nathan Jones: No.

Dr. Reagan: And furthermore you know my response to that was even if it were true it was the Roman government who had those troops sent there. And they were under Roman leadership.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And it was Roman decision to destroy the city and all. But really they were made up of Romans.

Gary Fisher: Well they adopted, or conscripted people along the way, but the majority of the army was still Roman. It was the Fifth Legion, and they are the ones that were responsible for the destruction.

Dr. Reagan: Well sometimes they say, “Well, you got to consider the fact that the Roman Empire ended up being two divisions. There was the Western Empire and the Eastern Empire and so that could mean that a Muslim could be the Antichrist because of this Eastern wing.” But what they forget there is that eastern wing developed long after 70 AD.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: It wasn’t there in 70 AD. Go ahead.

Nathan Jones: Well I find a hard time believing that a Muslim will be the Antichrist because there are some prophetic wars coming up that will basically destroy Islam. We are talking about the Psalm 83 War where Israel subjugates the neighbors directly bordering them. And then the Ezekiel 38 & 39 War better known as the Gog and Magog War; and that is where Russia, with a Islamic coalition of Iran, the Stan nations, Libya, Turkey. They all get together, they all come to try to destroy Israel and God steps in and destroys them all. Now, if we are at the point where, and all the timing signals look like that happens before the Tribulation then how can Islam which will no longer be a major player in the world produce the world leader?

Gary Fisher: Well absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: Go ahead.

Gary Fisher: Excuse me. If that occurs. If the Ezekiel 38 occurs either before the Rapture, immediately after the Rapture, or the beginning of the Tribulation. This Antichrist guy will not have a Muslim army to command.

Dr. Reagan: That’s the point. I mean you’ve got the Psalm 83 War, that destroys all the nations right around Israel. And then you’ve got the Gog and Magog War and that is the nations out. You are not going to have any Muslim army left in the Middle East when the Antichrist comes on the scene.

Gary Fisher: Right

Dr. Reagan: And then another problem too, and that is these fellas always talk about how this Islamic Antichrist type figure is going to unite the whole Muslim world and they are all going to be slaves to him and so forth.

Nathan Jones: Mahdi, yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Well, hey that violates the Scriptures. The Scriptures says that the Arab people are going to be a people who are always against each other, or always fighting against each other. And they have throughout history.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely

Dr. Reagan: The Shiites and the Sunnis hate each other with a passion nobody is going to unite those two.

Nathan Jones: Plus the Antichrist is supposed to walk into the Temple, desecrate it and declare himself to be god. Now, that is absolute taboo in Islam. You can never claim yourself to be god, it is an instant death sentence.

Dr. Reagan: I think that is the strongest argument of all.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Any Muslim who declare himself to be God would be killed immediately by the Muslims.

Gary Fisher: Right.

Nathan Jones: Exactly.

Gary Fisher: But we’re still dealing here with another issue is it Jehovah or Allah? Which god does he declare himself to be? If he declares himself as Allah there is no Jewish temple who is going to go up there and worship Allah. So, how does that play out?

Nathan Jones: That is interesting I have never thought of that.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, huh?

Dr. Reagan: And also it says the Antichrist is going to make a peace treaty that is going to guarantee the safety of Israel for the first three and a half years of the Tribulation. Do you think the Israelis are going to put their faith in a Muslim Antichrist?

Nathan Jones: No, no. They have been burned too many times.

Dr. Reagan: I don’t think so.

Gary Fisher: Not the Israelis I know.

Nathan Jones: Isn’t it interesting how we look at Bible prophecy through the lens of news, and not through the lens of the Bible.

Dr. Reagan: That’s right.

Nathan Jones: We’ve flipped it over.

Gary Fisher: That’s a good point.

Nathan Jones: And everybody is really jumping on that train. Obviously Islam is rising.

Dr. Reagan: Right.

Nathan Jones: But Islam’s days are really numbered.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Ok, a number of very prominent Christian leaders have recently taken the position that the Church is going to conquer the world. In fact one of the most prominent Christian leaders in America has taken the position that he has a PEACE plan. Called P-E-A-C-E is stands for I don’t know what the letters exactly stand for. But this plan is going to allow the Church to take over the world. And then I’ll guess we’ll have the Millennium and the Lord will come at the end of that time. You know this is just a revival of Post-Millennialism which died out at the beginning of the 20th Century and now it seems to be coming back. What do you think about this concept?

Gary Fisher: I think it is nonsense. The Church has had 2,000 years to try to do this.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Gary Fisher: So, when are they going to get started? You know, but the main point I think is the Church was never called to do this. The Church was here to occupy until Jesus comes.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Gary Fisher: Jesus is the King, not the Church. The Church is not going to rule anything. Jesus is going to be the Lord of Lords, and King of Kings, and the Church is here to be ambassadors for Him until He comes.

Dr. Reagan: Right.

Gary Fisher: What does an ambassador do? He is from one country representing the values of that country in a strange country. Eventually we will be united in our country here under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Nathan Jones: Be home.

Dr. Reagan: And it’s also a view of a Church Kingdom. The Church is going to rule the world and make it ready for Jesus Christ to come. He comes after, not before. But the Bible says this is going to be Jewish Kingdom. And that He is going to regather the Jews from all over the world, reestablish them in Israel and they are going to be Jewish believers.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: And He through them is going to flow blessings to all the nations of the world. But this just rules the Jews out completely.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Nathan Jones: Well this Kingdom Now, or Dominion Theology as it is called it assumes that the Church is getting bigger and bigger and the world is getting better and better. And while the Church is growing it is certainly not taking over the world. Of course we are seeing competition with Islam and other religions, Atheism is growing.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Nathan Jones: So, you can’t look at the world today and say the Church has taken over the world because it goes against totally what is happening.

Dr. Reagan: Well it, this is a theory and philosophy, and doctrine that was completely proven false in the early 20th Century. At the end of the 19th Century most Christian leaders both Protestant, Catholic, all took the position that the 20th Century was going to be the century of the Church. The Church would conquer the world. The Church would reign for 1,000 years and Jesus would come. Almost everybody was Post-Millennial. Then suddenly we had World War I, the Great Depression, World War II and you couldn’t find one of these guys anywhere. Because–

Gary Fisher: Yes, it reminded us that man is fallen.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, and now they are trying to revive this again?

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Nathan Jones: It’s great for missions. Churches love this I think because they see themselves as their church as an important cog in the missions wheel. It produced great missions work in the 1800’s but it’s not biblical.

Dr. Reagan: But Jesus in His own teachings.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Pointed out that the vast majority of mankind will always reject the Gospel.

Nathan Jones: Sadly.

Dr. Reagan: Christianity will never take over the world. He is going to come back. He will take over the world. He will reign.

Gary Fisher: I think Church in the meantime ought to stick with what Jesus told them to do; go out teach, make disciples, and baptize, and wait on me.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Well fellas one of the most popular Bible prophecy teachers on the scene today who has great outreach is teaching, and taught for years that we are in the midst of the Tribulation right now. And that he in fact is going to Jerusalem himself and he is going to convert the Jews, and he is raising money right now to build a headquarters in Jerusalem. What about it?

Gary Fisher: It’s– [laughing]

Nathan Jones: Wow, ok.

Dr. Reagan: Well control yourself.

Gary Fisher: It is laughable. I’m sorry. But you know first of all, if we are in the Tribulation where is the Antichrist? Because that is one of the first things that happens in the beginning of the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: And how can we been in the Tribulation for the past 50-60 years when it is supposed to be 7 years?

Gary Fisher: Absolutely. And you know the first few months of the Tribulation opening we have half the world’s population dying. When has that occurred? You see this is–

Dr. Reagan: This is what happens when you start interpreting prophecies symbolically.

Gary Fisher: Yes, that is exactly what it is. And there this I know this teacher that you are referring to and it’s, there is a certain arrogance involved here for him to think that he is going over and teach the Jews, and the Antichrist is going to leave him alone while he is murdering all the other believers in the world. And the Jews are running for their life so how are they going to be in a Bible school in Jerusalem?

Dr. Reagan: You’re really getting worked up about that.

Gary Fisher: I have. I’m sorry.

Dr. Reagan: Nathan any comment?

Nathan Jones: Well I looked out the window today and a third of the trees weren’t burning, the water wasn’t filled with blood, they’re weren’t dead bodies, no one is trying to make me get 666 on my right hand or forehead.

Gary Fisher: Good point.

Nathan Jones: I mean those are everything that are supposed to happen during the Tribulation and it’s not happening. It is just obvious from reading the Bible and taking a literal interpretation that we are not living in the Tribulation.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Part 2

Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion of prophetic issues from a biblical perspective. We have with us our dear friend Gary Fisher, of Lion of Judah Ministries in Franklin, Tennessee. And Gary we are glad to have you.

Gary Fisher: Thank you Dave, it is great to be here.

Dr. Reagan: Alright I want to jump into this by asking you a question about the Rapture. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture concept is the idea that Jesus will appear for His Church before the Tribulation begins and take the Church out of the world, both the living and the dead. We will be in Heaven with Him during that terrible Tribulation period, return with Him at the end that is what’s called the Second Coming. Now, critics of this viewpoint often point out that it developed in the early 1800’s in England and that therefore it is too new to be true. It’s just a doctrine that is too new to be true. If it were really true somebody would have thought of it long before then. So what about that guys?

Gary Fisher: Well first of all they can’t prove that it is new. Second of all it is irrelevant if it’s new because Bible prophecy itself in Daniel 12 says in the end times they will start to understand biblical concepts that we have never understood.

Dr. Reagan: That is a good point.

Gary Fisher: So, but it is irrelevant whether it is new or not. The real point is: Is it in the Bible or not?

Dr. Reagan: Is it biblical? Is it biblical?

Gary Fisher: Can the Bible support this view or not, and the answer is absolutely yes.

Dr. Reagan: Well the Rapture is right there in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4.

Gary Fisher: You’re right.

Dr. Reagan: And I think there are a lot of reasons why it is relatively new. But you know you could have said that to Martin Luther when he began to preach salvation by grace through faith, which is the biblical concept of salvation. That is 1,500 years into the history of the Church, and people say that is too new to be true.

Gary Fisher: Right.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Or you could have said that to Albert, what was his name I can’t even think now, but the fella in the 19th Century who began to offer invitations at the end of his services. And people said well that is just unbiblical nobody’s ever heard of doing that.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: But let’s get back to the point. The point is it’s in the Bible.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And when people talk about too new to be true I think they just got to understand that first of all people didn’t study Bible prophecy throughout most of Church history because the Roman Catholic Church had a position called Amillennialism. If you differed with that position whatever you wrote was burned and you were burned at the stake. And so people just didn’t fool with it. And then when it got into the Reformation people didn’t really get into Bible prophecy in great detail either. It was only with the Puritans that they began to really study Bible prophecy and about 400-500 years ago.

Nathan Jones: And that’s right about the Puritans. Matter of fact now they attribute, those who are against the Pre-Trib view attribute it to Darby, and they say he got it from a teenage girl named Mary MacDonald. Margaret MacDonald, excuse me. And they’re the ones that came up with the idea. But I’ve been reading this great book it is called, “Dispensationalism before Darby” by Dr. William Watson. And he’s an expert on the Puritan writings from the 1500’s and 1600’s. And he has found all sorts of different Puritan writers who were exposing different aspects of the Pre-Trib view. For instance Joseph Mede, Increase Mather, Pierre Jurieu, Philip Doddridge, John Gill, James McKnight, Thomas Scott, Morgan Edwards, William Witherby. The list goes on and on about people who are talking about the Pre-Trib Rapture well before Darby came on the scene.

Gary Fisher: That’s true.

Dr. Reagan: Some of them, a lot of them were talking about the fact that just the Rapture was going to be an event separate from the Second Coming. Some might have presented it three and a half years before, four years of five.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, their times were all different.

Dr. Reagan: But they began to realize that there really must be a separate coming of the Lord from the Second Coming.

Nathan Jones: Because I find those who disagree with the Pre-Trib Rapture are Post-Trib Rapturists who believe the Rapture and the Second Coming are one and the same. And these writings from the Puritans clearly define there are two different, a Rapture and a Second Coming.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: But you see my question for them is how can the Rapture and the Second Coming be one and the same, because Jesus appears in the heavens in one, and the other He comes to earth.

Gary Fisher: It’s impossible.

Dr. Reagan: So, you are going to have to have a yo-yo Rapture where you go up to meet the Lord in the sky, you’re suddenly transformed and then you come right back down to earth. Doesn’t make any sense.

Gary Fisher: Well also if you have the Rapture at that point.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Gary Fisher: All are translated from mortal to immortal there are no mortals left to go on to the Millennium.

Nathan Jones: Excellent point.

Dr. Reagan: Yes, you have no population for the Millennium.

Gary Fisher: So, the only thing you can do at that point is allegorize the Millennium.

Dr. Reagan: I still like you’re point that you made though that Daniel was told, “Lord I don’t understand the prophecies you’ve given me.” And God said, “Daniel, they are not for you to understand, they are for you to write down.

Gary Fisher: Amen

Dr. Reagan: When the time comes to understand all end time Bible prophecy it will be at that time.

Gary Fisher: Jesus pulled this same thing on His disciples. They were used to Jewish theology about this coming King, you are going to have the kingdom and that kind of stuff. And one day He threw onto them in John 14, “I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am there you maybe also.” That was totally new. I can hear them, it is too new to be true.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, well people have been proclaiming the imminent return of Jesus for hundreds of years, He could come any moment. Is His return really imminent?

Nathan Jones: Well I would definitely go to Matthew 24 verses 36, 42, 44, 50 and chapter 25:13, every instance of Jesus saying His return is like a thief. In other words I don’t expect a thief to come. If a thief announced, “I’m coming to your house at 3 o’clock.” I would be ready for him. I would have my shotgun. I’d be all set. But when a thief comes he sneaks in at a time you don’t expect. Now, if the Rapture and the return of Jesus was at the Second Coming we would know exactly seven years to the day when Jesus would come. How would He come like a thief?

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Nathan Jones: He couldn’t possibly. Plus He says, “Look out.” “Be ready.” “Keep your lights lit, you don’t know when the Bridegroom is coming.”

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Nathan Jones: So again and again, Jesus Himself said that we wouldn’t know when His return would be.

Dr. Reagan: The point you just made there is a really good one and that is the idea that we know from the book of Revelation that it is going to be exactly seven years, years of 360 days.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: From the time that that peace treaty is signed by the Antichrist with Israel until the Second Coming of Jesus. I mean if you are around at that time you can count the days.

Nathan Jones: Exactly.

Gary Fisher: That’s right.

Dr. Reagan: So, when He keeps talking about the fact that you cannot know when I’m going to return, He’s got to be talking about–

Gary Fisher: About the Rapture.

Dr. Reagan: — some other return and it must be the Rapture.

Nathan Jones: Exactly.

Gary Fisher: Matthew 24:44, “You do not know the day your Lord is coming.”

Dr. Reagan: Yes, and that can be imminent. All imminency means is that it is an event that can occur any moment. And that is true of the Rapture. There is not one prophecy that has to be fulfilled for the Rapture to occur.

Gary Fisher: Right

Dr. Reagan: There maybe prophecies that will be fulfilled before it occurs like the establishment of Israel. Or perhaps Psalm 83 War. Maybe even the Gog and Magog War we don’t know. But it doesn’t have to if the event is imminent.

Gary Fisher: That’s right. And the prophets that wrote about those events didn’t know anything about the Church.

Dr. Reagan: That’s true. That’s true.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Ok, well one of the worse abuses of Bible prophecy I think both of you would agree is date setting. In fact sometimes I get, I’m embarrassed to admit I am a Bible prophecy teacher because of the nonsense that goes on in date setting. I’ve always taken the position that we cannot know the date but we can know the season of the Lord’s return. And I’ve been accused of date setting for saying that. Is that date setting to say that you can know the season of the Lord’s return?

Gary Fisher: Absolutely not. Matthew 24:32 Jesus said, “The generation that sees the budding of the fig tree knows that summer, a season, is near.” That is license for us to know the season. So then we’ve got to decide what the fig tree is. And of course I believe God uses the symbol of the fig trees as a stand in for Israel. Hosea 9:10, “I saw your forefathers as the first fruits on the fig tree.” I believe Jesus is referring to the fig tree and the generation that sees it come back together is the generation that knows that summer, the season.

Nathan Jones: And you are defining terminology. We have people write in say, “Well what is it fall, or spring, you are saying that is the season.” But you’re not talking a season as a time of the year.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely not.

Nathan Jones: You are talking an era or time period here.

Dr. Reagan: There you go. Yeah.

Gary Fisher: Time period, good way to say it.

Dr. Reagan: And the Bible gives us signs. I mean over and over it tells us here are signs we are to watch for. For example what is your favorite verse in the New Testament?

Gary Fisher: Hebrews 10:25, “Encourage each other and so much the more as you see the day approaching.”

Dr. Reagan: Now look, later on it identifies that day not as Sunday, but it identifies that day as the Day of Judgment that is coming.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: It says you can identify it. That means you can look out and you can say, “You see this? You see that? You see that? Hey this is about to happen.” Right?

Gary Fisher: Well absolutely and it says you can see certain things.

Dr. Reagan: Yes. Yes.

Gary Fisher: So, there.

Dr. Reagan: Jesus Himself said when you see all these things begin to happen.

Gary Fisher: Luke 21:28.

Dr. Reagan: Know that I am right at the door of Heaven and I am ready to come.

Gary Fisher: Amen. Today would be good.

Nathan Jones: He even gave us what those things were in Luke 21, Matthew 24, Mark 13.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Nathan Jones: He said there would be false prophets, there would be wars, there would be plagues.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Nathan Jones: There would be fearful signs in the sky. There would be different events especially Christian persecution. So He told us what to look out for and that they would come more frequently and more intensely the closer we are getting to Jesus Christ. Look at the earthquakes as one of the examples they are definitely increasing in frequency and intensity. So we know that Jesus is coming soon. We are in like you said the season.

Gary Fisher: We are in the season.

Nathan Jones: We are in the season.

Dr. Reagan: What would you consider to be the single most important sign that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return?

Gary Fisher: The regathering and the reinstitution of the nation of Israel.

Dr. Reagan: How about you Nathan?

Nathan Jones: Well I used to think that but then I thought of after hearing Dr. Ron Rhodes start using the word convergence it was like, that’s it, convergence. In other words not just one sign like Israel, which I think is the super sign.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, that would be the single most important.

Nathan Jones: But all these different signs coming together at once makes a sign in of itself.

Gary Fisher: Great point.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

Gary Fisher: Excellent point.

Dr. Reagan: That is very true for the first time in history all of the signs are coming together.

Gary Fisher: But none of them were individually relevant until we had Israel in place.

Nathan Jones: Until Israel.

Dr. Reagan: That’s right.

Gary Fisher: Then all the rest of them heat to that one, gather to it and we have all of them together at one time.

Dr. Reagan: Of course the reason for that is all of end time Bible prophecy focuses on Israel.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: It talks about the regathering of the people, the re-establishment of the state, the reclamation of the land, the revival of the language, the reoccupation of the city of Jerusalem. I mean it just goes on and on, focuses on Israel. And one of the very last prophecies it mentions is that all the nations of the world will come together against Israel.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: What are we seeing right now?

Gary Fisher: Absolutely. And all of these signs.

Dr. Reagan: Including the United States of America.

Gary Fisher: And all of these signs are signs of the Second Coming.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, that’s right.

Gary Fisher: And we see them coming together. We are in this tight little squeeze between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation.

Dr. Reagan: That’s a very good point. It is kind of like Tim LaHaye once told me he said, “He and his wife were walking through a shopping center and she said, ‘Look around what do you see that is different?’ He said, “It was in September and he looked around and said, ‘I don’t see anything different.’ She said, ‘Look again.’ And he looked again and he said, ‘Well they are putting up Christmas decorations everywhere.’ She said, ‘What is that a sign of?’ He said, ‘Christmas.’ She said, ‘Yeah. And is also a sign that Thanksgiving is right around the corner.'”

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Dr. Reagan: The signs were not pointing to Thanksgiving but when you see those signs you know Thanksgiving is around the corner.

Gary Fisher: That’s right.

Dr. Reagan: The signs are pointing to the Tribulation and the Second Coming but when you see them the Rapture is right around the corner.

Gary Fisher: Today would be good.

Nathan Jones: Excellent point. Yeah. Yeah it would.

Dr. Reagan: Well the world keeps trying to settle the Middle East crisis with politics. Can the Middle East crisis be solved with politics, by negotiation, peace treaties that sort of thing?

Gary Fisher: No.

Dr. Reagan: Deals?

Gary Fisher: No.

Dr. Reagan: Why not.

Gary Fisher: It is a supernatural problem.

Dr. Reagan: It is a spiritual problem.

Gary Fisher: It is supernatural, it is a spiritual problem and it is going to be solved by the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords when He returns. It is the oldest family feud on the history of the planet.

Nathan Jones: Thousands of years.

Gary Fisher: And somebody born in Washington and raised at Harvard and that kind of stuff isn’t going to come up with some smart plan to fix this. It’s got to be fixed by the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

Nathan Jones: Plus we know–

Dr. Reagan: And yet we continue to put all this effort into the politics of it.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Gary Fisher: And money.

Dr. Reagan: Yes. How about you Nathan?

Nathan Jones: Well we know that the peace process is going to fail because biblically we know there are certain like we mentioned earlier end time wars coming. The Psalm 83 War, the Gog and Magog War; wars between Islamic nations and Israel. So we might get a two state solution which would be a huge disaster. We might see all these things happening but we know that biblically everything is going to fail or at least it will be super temporary because there are big wars coming up.

Dr. Reagan: Ok. Do you see any prophetic significance to the growing worldwide persecution of Christians?

Nathan Jones: Well I think Jesus one of those signs we talked about that shows we are in the season Luke gave us in 21 verse 12, Jesus did, “Before all these things they will lay their hands on you and persecute you. They will hand you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will go up before kings and governors because of My Name.” And again and again Jesus said that we would be persecuted for following Him. And we are seeing that growing especially with ISIS marching around the Middle East and killing Christians. We are seeing persecution in the United States against bakers, and florists, and clerks.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Nathan Jones: It will increase because Satan hates the Christian. There was a point made once that really struck me is that no one is persecuting the Muslims. No one is persecuting the Buddhists.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, well they can do this.

Nathan Jones: They are only persecuting the Christians. That is a spiritual thing. I think that is a proof that the Bible is true to the Word because only Christianity is persecuted.

Dr. Reagan: Satan is focused on Christianity.

Nathan Jones: Yes. He wants it destroyed.

Gary Fisher: And I would add this. Good point Nathan, Nathan, I’m sorry. There is only one name under Heaven given among men where we must be saved.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

Gary Fisher: So Satan knows he has a short time left and he wants to discredit that one Name.

Dr. Reagan: That is a good point you just made because Satan knows Bible prophecy. It says in the book of Revelation that he is cast down to earth he knows his time is short.

Gary Fisher: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And he knows his time is short.

Gary Fisher: He does.

Dr. Reagan: And he is doing everything he can to destroy both Christians and Jews.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: Because another thing that is happening on the world scene is tremendous increase in Anti-Semitism.

Nathan Jones: Wow, yes.

Dr. Reagan: Just like just before the Holocaust. I think that has prophetic significance.

Gary Fisher: It’s huge. God is using that as a tool to call the nation of Israel back into the land of Israel.

Dr. Reagan: Yes. Yes.

Gary Fisher: It is an incentive for them to go back. And He said they would come back.

Dr. Reagan: And they are going back.

Gary Fisher: And they are going to go back.

Nathan Jones: And the persecution of the Jews is one of the three main purposes of the Tribulation God is trying to get the Jews on their knees to give their lives to Jesus Christ.

Gary Fisher: Amen.

Nathan Jones: Along with to get rid of evil, to punish evil and bring His wrath. And of course for Jesus Christ to usher in His Kingdom. So it is filling this Anti-Semitism right into God’s plan.

Gary Fisher: Absolutely.


Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy. I want to thank our special guest Gary Fisher for being with us and sharing his insights. And Gary tell our viewers how they can get in touch with your ministry.

Gary Fisher: Thank you, Dave,

Dr. Reagan: Well folks that is our program for this week. I hope it’s been a blessing to you and I hope you will be back with us next week the Lord willing. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking of Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near.”

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