Is Satan real or just a myth? Find out with hosts Tim Moore, Nathan Jones, and Dave Bowen on the television program, Christ in Prophecy!
Air Date: January 13, 2024
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Tim Moore: Welcome to Christ in Prophecy. We’re glad that you’ve connected with us today through the miracle of modern technology. Our topic is one that incites fear in those who are not grounded by faith in Jesus Christ, or conversely, it sparks a perverse fascination in those who are in open rebellion against the Lord. I’m speaking of Satan. Peter said that we should be of sober spirit and be on the alert because our adversary, the Devil, prowls about like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. Martin Luther’s great hymn of faith contains this stanza: “The Prince of Darkness grim, We tremble not for him; His rage we can endure, For lo! His doom is sure. One little word shall fell him.””
Tim Moore: It is not our intention to make too much of Satan today, but we don’t want to make the mistake of making too little of him either. We will consider our infernal adversary from a biblical perspective. So how about it, guys? How are we to make and what are we to make of Satan?
Nathan Jones: Well, Tim, I’ve studied Satan in detail, both as my book, “The Mighty Angels of Revelation” deals with Angels, well Satan is a fallen angel, so I have a whole chapter about angels and demons. But I want to start with what our good friend Mike Hile with Rapture Ready wrote he said, “To many, Satan is a cartoon character or a mythological creation that is imaginary and harmless. Of course, the real Satan takes pleasure in this harmless caricature for his persona, for it helps disguise his diabolical plans and keeps most people in the dark concerning his real intentions for them. As long as Satan is not taken seriously, he’s able to push his agenda forward without being suspected as the culprit and the cause of many of the world’s problems.”
Tim Moore: I think we have a problem, gentlemen, today is that people don’t take Satan seriously. They mythological him, they say he’s an ideal, they say he is just the embodiment of evil. But we make the argument he’s an actual, real, physical fallen angel, right?
Nathan Jones: Yes.
Tim Moore: Yes, we do.
David Bowen:: And I think there’s a big misconception about it, too. I mean, I think people get the image or the picture, I have an angel on this side of my shoulder and I have the devil over here, and they’re both trying to persuade me. And Satan is not equal to God, he’s very limited in time, space, power and everything else. So to put him there and say they’re equal, there’s a misconception there that we have, and that’s why I’m glad we’re doing this show. It can be an odd topic, but this is an important topic to talk about because people need to understand the seriousness of it.
Tim Moore: It is an important topic and as we start this year, I think the Lord has much in store for us this year, but I think we need to understand that we are not in a battle just against flesh and blood. Obviously there are some who are opposed to us in that manner. We’ve seen flesh and blood obviously come against Israel, but they are motivated by principalities, by satanic and demonic forces and those are at play at all times. So let’s turn to the Word of God. What are some of the names for Satan, our adversary, that are contained in scripture?
David Bowen:: Well, I think going back to the time of Scriptures, the names represent a character. So what you would name somebody would kind of show who they are. And I don’t think it is by mistake that in Scripture Satan is called a liar. He’s called a murderer. He’s called an accuser. Because that really is his character and who he is.
Nathan Jones: We’ve got to remember, too, that Satan didn’t start out evil. Matter of fact, the Bible says that he was created before the heavens and earth were created, the angelic world existed before humanity’s creation. He was known as Lucifer or light bearer. He was a cherubim. He was a guardian over the throne of God. He was considered a worship leader. He was also the most beautiful and most powerful of all of creation. But because of that beauty and because of the worship that he saw the Most High get, he himself wanted that for himself. And so he was able to persuade a third of the angels to join him in rebellion to try to overthrow the Holy One. Of course, God’s all powerful, Satan, even as the greatest and most powerful creation, couldn’t do it. And he was cast down to earth. And that’s why he’s called Satan because Satan as a name means adversary. A few more to add to your list Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies, Belial, which means hopeless ruin, the Devil, which means defamer, I had to look that up, that’s interesting. When we say Devil, we mean the defamer. He’s called the Dragon, the Prince of this World, the Serpent, the Tempter and the Wicked One.
Tim Moore: The Wicked One. You know, I always remind people that somehow, in a way that we can’t fully understand, I certainly can’t fathom it, Satan still has access to the Throne Room of God. You say, now, wait just a minute. What? I thought God couldn’t be in the presence of evil. But we learn in Job that Satan came before the Lord and the Lord said, “Have you ever considered my servant Job?” And Satan, “Oh, Job.” I always say, I’m glad the Lord didn’t use me as an example. But really the Lord allows us to endure trials to prove our faith. He already knows, but Satan does come before to accuse us. There will be a time, Nathan, you mentioned he was cast down to earth. Yes, he was cast out of heaven. Somehow he still has access. We know there’s coming a time which we’ll discuss in a few moments when he will no longer have access to Heaven. But right now, Satan wants to accuse us at every turn. And I almost envision the Lord saying, now, wait just a minute, you’re accusing Tim. Son, do you know Tim? Yes, Father, he’s a brother. He belongs to us. All right, then Satan, your words have no power here because Tim, David, Nathan belong to Me.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, we can go and get first person account of what Satan believes, what he thinks, what his strategies are by going to Isaiah 14, as well as Ezekiel 28.
David Bowen:: I was going to say that. I didn’t want to miss that part.
Nathan Jones: I’ll let you take that one, let me take Isaiah 14 it says, “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation” and it goes on and on. As he’s sitting there bragging, I’m going to be this, and I’m going to take God’s place and I want the world to worship him. Well, Satan was cast down for his rebellion, and if he can’t rule the universe, then he’s going to try to rule Earth and rule over those of us made in the image of God.
David Bowen:: And what’s important, that I think we miss, it might be a different time for a different show, but he had talent in heaven, he was musician.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Bowen:: Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 both talk about that. So when he’s cast out, he still has that talent. He still has that ability, but he just does it in a way that dishonors God, it’s against God. Music still does that. Do we worship God with music or do we go against God with music? Because that gift is still there and that talent is still there.
Nathan Jones: It reminds me of that video I saw as a teenager called Hell’s Bells.
David Bowen:: Yes.
Nathan Jones: Where they showed the Satanic influence with certain music. I think a lot of people don’t think because we have these caricatures of Satan, that he’s this goat looking man, He’s got a pointy tail and he’s red, he’s got a pitchfork. But the Bible says that he was so beautiful that he was jewel encrusted, he was a light bearer. It’s very much that because he’s always compared to a lizard or a dragon, because the cherubim have different animalistic faces, that maybe he’s dragon in real form. But he’s not this ugly, disgusting looking creature when you look at him; he’s going to be the most beautiful and amazing thing you’ve ever seen.
David Bowen:: And he can appear as an angel of light.
Nathan Jones: Right.
Tim Moore: And so we have to be discerning and we have to test the spirits. Even if someone comes to us claiming to come in the name of Christ, we have to listen to their words because Satan will try to deceive us. He is the deceiver; he is the father of lies. And so we have to be very careful and on guard spiritually. And that’s why we tell even our viewers everything we say you need to test against the Word of God. Don’t take our word for it, we’re not here to proclaim opinion, we’re here to point you to the Word of God. And so we should test every spirit.
Well, obviously, Satan has great power still. But Dave, I know you have a particular way that you like to speak of Satan. So what is your take on how much respect we ought to give him?
David Bowen:: Well, I don’t want to give that loser any respect at all. So, and this is my own personal opinion. I wrote a book on the Book of Revelation. I went back to the Old Testament showing how the book is shown in the Old Testament, and when Satan’s name came up, which it does come up, I refuse to capitalize it. So speaking about him, I just refuse to capitalize it. When I sent the book into my editor and she is a believer, she the first few times thought it was a typo, but she saw the pattern going. So she contacted me and said, “Do you realize you didn’t capitalize Devil, Satan, anything.” I said, “I know.” She goes, “Well, that’s grammatically incorrect.” And I went, “I don’t care.” She goes, “Well, what are you going to do, you can’t publish that way.” I go, “I will.” And she says, “But it’s grammatically incorrect.” I go, “I’ll take the hit grammatically. I’m just not going to give loser any kind of credit.” But she said, “What about when it is capitalized in Scripture?” I said, “I won’t touch Scripture. If God wants to capitalize it, that’s fine. But when I write about it, when I mention it, it is not going to be capitalized.”
Tim Moore: Alright, so there’s a position. What do you think, Nathan, should we give respect to this loser or should we be wary of the power that he still wields?
Nathan Jones: Well, as a writer the grammatical thing would drive me insane. I would have to capitalize it because it’s a proper name. But I am so with you on the fact that we don’t give him one inch whatsoever. He is a defeated creature. Not only is he been defeated, he can’t possibly– you know people look at Satan and God and they say, well, it’s a yin and yang, they’re equal in power. It’s an equal battle. And it’s not the truth at all. God’s power is so infinitely above Satan, He could just do poof, and Satan would be gone in an instant. But God uses Satan as a lightning rod for choice. We all have free will. We all have choice. And so God uses Satan to have us make a choice. Do you choose good or evil? Loyalty to the Lord or rebellion with Satan? And so when Satan’s time is done, when he’s not useful anymore, he will be cast aside. So it’s the losing team to go on his side.
Tim Moore: No, I will be a little bit of a counterpoint in just this regard, I always come back to the book of Jude. And Jude records an instance when Michael came and was giving revelation, and in verse nine of Jude, this very short book of the Bible right before Revelation, Jude says this, “But Michael the Archangel.” So we’re talking about a very high and an angel with great responsibility. “When he was disputing with the Devil.” So he’s arguing with Satan. Was not, or excuse me he was arguing about the body of Moses, “but he did not dare pronounce against him, Satan, a blasphemous judgment, but said the ‘Lord rebuke you.’” And I take instruction from this, if even Michael the mighty Angel would not dare to condemn Satan or to blaspheme him, but said, You know what, the Lord rebuke you. I guess I take a position that I’m going to be careful not in the power of Tim to discredit or demean the Devil. In the power of Christ we have the ability to overcome all his fiery darts and to put on what we talked about in our prayer before this episode, The Armor of God. But I still recognize that he is indeed a powerful adversary and not one to be taken lightly.
David Bowen:: He’s still a loser.
Nathan Jones: But we also have to take it in light of 1 John 4:4 “You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.” So, yeah, he’s a loser and we have to take him seriously because he is the most powerful of any of the created beings. But we’ve got God, we have the Holy Spirit in us. And even if they destroy these bodies, we will still have victory through Jesus Christ, through eternity.
David Bowen:: And that goes back to what you brought up a Job. To me Job is a story of spiritual warfare.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Bowen:: I see the demons and angels on both side watching what Job is going to do. And it shows the importance of intercessory prayer.
Tim Moore: It does.
David Bowen:: Because when the accusations were brought against Tim, the devil is going to be right. Everything he accuses you of he’s going to be correct on.
Nathan Jones: That’s interesting.
Tim Moore: That’s a good point.
David Bowen:: But what we need to do is be praying for that because it doesn’t matter if you’re guilty or not, you’re going to be cleansed because of the prayer, and because of the blood of Christ. So by weeping and prayer up, intercessory prayer, that spiritual courtroom battle that takes place, we become victorious, even though we’re guilty, because of being in Christ.
Tim Moore: And I would submit this, we cannot give in even to the accusations. I will tell you, in a former life, I was a training interrogator for the Air Force. And so one of my favorite tactics was to trick someone into making a mistake as they were trying to resist the interrogation. And once they made a mistake, I just needle them on it. Oh, look at the mistake you made. And I would try to break them down because once they’d made one mistake and began to think about it, they’d make another, then another, then another. If Satan can get inside our head, or dare I say inside our heart and let us become defeated because he’s constantly hurling accusations, Scripture calls them fiery darts, then pretty soon he can break down our defenses. And we have to say, “Get thee behind me, Satan. I stand on Christ.” And I’m reminded when the angel came and one of the great faithful of the Old Testament said, “Whose side are you on?” And the angel said, “I’m not on any side. I serve the Lord God.” And so really, it’s not a matter of God’s on our side, we serve and are only protected in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Nathan Jones: But in light of the fact that Satan is the father of lies, so all the accusations that he puts in our head that are constantly nagging us, there might be a kernel of truth to that because of our fallen sin nature. But he will augment that, and he will make us feel miserable. And he will try to trip us up. You and I love “The Screwtape Letters.”
Tim Moore: Yes, we do.
Nathan Jones: We interviewed Mondo Gonzales over at Prophecy Watchers about it because he wrote a great book on it. And it’s about how the demonic world is constantly using these little tactics, these little lies based on a kernel of truth. If they can’t keep us from God if we are in God, then he’ll keep us from being effective in God. And so we have to watch our minds because our minds are constantly under attack.
David Bowen:: But he’s a counterfeiter. He’s not a creator. So what he does, he does constantly. How he went after Eve in the garden. You know, the lust of the eyes. This looks good. You need this. Pride. The same thing with Jesus in the wilderness, the desert. How did Jesus rebuke that? The Word of God?
Tim Moore: So I think that’s a beautiful insight. Satan counterfeits and he takes what is good and he twists and warps it. You mentioned pride, obviously, even we when we look at a rainbow, the first thing that comes to our mind is not the promise of God to Noah, it is something that Satan has twisted even that beautiful symbol to represent something else, which is an abomination to God. But let’s ask this, we’re not psychiatrist or psychologist, we didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but how can we analyze Satan’s motives and how can he possibly think he can win against the Lord God Almighty when the Lord is already told what the final outcome of all of human history will be in Satan’s defeat? What’s Satan’s motive even to try to get us pulled down and cast into Hell alongside him?
Nathan Jones: Well, I think there’s two questions here so two answers, Isaiah 14:14, we’re back to that, “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ That’s his goal. He wants the worship that’s due God from the world, from us because we are made in His image. Knowing that he is a defeated creature he’s going to try to take as many down with him as he can. But I question whether he actually knows he’s a defeated creature, because sometimes the greatest liars deceive themselves, and he seems to think that he’s going to win. And I’ll tell you what the strategy is he does this every time. If I can get enough people on my side, I will have a big enough army to overthrow God. It didn’t work in Heaven. It won’t work during the Tribulation when the Antichrist has the entire world lined up to try to stop Christ when He returns. At the end of the Millennial Kingdom, when he gets the children born during the Millennial Kingdom that side with him and they march on Jerusalem. God just sends fire, boom, it’s over. Satan has this failed strategy again and again, he’s self-deceived.
David Bowen:: And to answer the question I say the same thing. He’s delusional. He thinks he can win. And what he needs to do is get into our emotion, to tap into our emotions. He’s called the serpent and the dragon in Genesis 3 and Revelation 12 for a reason and for a purpose with that. And he tries to tap into our human emotions, he deceives us into becoming his ally, which is Galatians 2 and 2 Peter 2. So again, he tries to get us to say, well, God is a loving God, a compassionate God, a forgiving God, so I can do this. And we start sinning. And what sinning does it hardens our heart. And the harder our hearts gets the further we push God away, and before long we’re not even thinking about God, and Satan comes in there and just with the delusion, and the lies, and deceit.
Tim Moore: You mentioned Genesis 3. I’m reminded that Satan first asked Eve, “Did God really say?” And Eve for a moment may have thought, well, what did God say? And then Satan contradicted God directly, “You will not die.” In other words, did God really say what you think He said? And when Eve started to wonder about it, he contradicted and said, “No, God lied to you.” And to this day Satan would try to confuse us and try to lead us astray if we’re not grounded in the Word of God. That’s why we encourage all of you to test every word against Scripture, against what God has revealed, and don’t trust us or anyone else and don’t listen to the lies of Satan. But to this day, Satan is still trying to twist and warp the Word of God. And yet he knows the Word of God. I will point this out when Satan came to tempt Jesus Christ, and we have that record recorded in Matthew 4, how did he tempt Christ?
David Bowen:: Well, he brought the same thing he did with Eve, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and pride.
Tim Moore: But He also quoted Scripture.
David Bowen:: And that’s how Jesus fought back He quoted Scripture back. So how do we stand against the deceit of the enemy? By being in God’s Word. We follow Jesus’ example because He quoted Deuteronomy three times, all three times. And Satan even took Psalm and just twisted, he took Psalm 91 and twisted it. So it was a nugget of truth, but then he made it to what he wanted it to be, which he would do all the time. So the way we respond is to be in the Word of God.
Nathan Jones: And what’s interesting is how successful Satan is, because the Bible says that broad is the road that leads to destruction. We know that more people born will go to Hell than they will go to Heaven. And I think you go back to Genesis 3:4 again, where it says, “You will be like God.” That is what Satan was promising Adam and Eve, that they would become gods one day. What do we see in the world, especially as the Great Reset moves forward with transhumanism and all? This desire to make humans evolve into becoming gods again. And so we’ve got to, I think, protect ourselves by not having that little bit of I don’t want to say divinity, but the little bit of this desire in all of us to be worshiped as gods like Satan does. That’s why we have to supplement ourselves underneath the Lord and realize He’s divine, He’s the only one worthy and worship Him that way. And that’s a battle, man. That’s a battle.
Tim Moore: It is a battle. You know the three temptations of Satan that he came against Christ with in Matthew 4. First was just for the physical need of food and nourishment.
David Bowen:: The lust of the eye.
Tim Moore: The lust of the eyes. And then with worship prior to the proper time and without the proper context of worship, only God. And the third thing was something that people sometimes misunderstand; Satan offered Christ the kingdoms of the world.
David Bowen:: Pride.
Tim Moore: And so people will say, well, Satan has no power in this world. Well, I would disagree. He had possession of the kingdoms of this earth. And we’re affirmed in that continuing reality in 1 John 5:19, where John himself says, but he says that he has the kingdoms of this world. They still, the whole world lies within the realm of the evil one. Satan still has a great deal of power. So those who clamor for power, the despots and dictators and really each one of us in our mortal flesh, which wants to expand our own power base. Satan can say, oh you want that. I can give that to you. And it becomes a false, ascension to a godlike status. But, he would feed that ego, that pride and that desire of a sinful heart.
Nathan Jones: And it’s only temporary, though, because we read in Revelation 4-5 that there is only one who is worthy to open up the scroll. The scroll is the title deed to the earth. So people say, well, you know, Jesus defeated Satan when He died on the cross and resurrect from the dead. That is true. But Jesus has not come back and taken the title deed and reclaimed what is His, the earth. So that’s why Satan still rules over this Earth. It boggles the mind when people say Satan is not active in this day and age. It’s like, have you watched the News? But Jesus Christ is the only one worthy because of His death, burial and resurrection.
Tim Moore: Amen.
Nathan Jones: He can open the title deed to the earth and come and claim what is His.
Tim Moore: It is 1 John 5:19 where it says the whole world lies, didn’t say lay or did lay, it lies in the power of the evil one. But the very next verse, “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.”
David Bowen:: Can I ask a question? Going back to Genesis, we keep bringing that up. What was Eve’s greatest sin? Was it taking from the tree or was it adding to God’s Word.
Tim Moore: Oh, boy.
David Bowen:: Because he said, “What did God say?” He said, “Not to eat from the tree and not to touch the tree.” Did God ever say don’t touch the tree? So she added to the Word as well. And when God dealt with the sin, He cursed the ground and He cursed the devil, he cursed the serpent did not curse man. And in fact, what came out of that was the promise of the Messiah coming, Genesis 3:15 is the first promise of the virgin birth and Messiah. So when we look at this again, it comes back to be it in God’s Word, it’s important not to misquote it, not to misinterpret it, not to take it out of context, and to realize that even the beginning, when everything was cursed, that there was a hope and the Messiah was coming. And the power would be there, and the victory would be there. And there’s been a whole lot of chaos since then, but the promise of the hope and the future is there.
Tim Moore: You know, as we record this show, just over 50 years ago in 1972, Hal Lindsey, who was a great proclaimers of the Lord’s soon return released a book entitled “Satan is Alive and Well on Planet Earth.” And even then, in the early seventies, people who considered themselves enlightened were already rejecting the concept of Satan. Oh, come on, that’s fairy tale stuff. And they were already becoming taken with their own secular ideology and casting off the fetters of religion, simply refusing to believe in what I’ve already labeled an infernal adversary. Here we are 50 years later. What evidence do you see that the world has moved on from the idea that there is a spiritual realm or that we have an infernal adversary?
David Bowen:: Apathy. Disbelief.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.
David Bowen:: You know studies say 13% of Americans read the Bible, you know, but how does faith come by hearing the Word of God. So again, it all comes back to the Word of God. Whether you’re fighting the sickness, whether you’re going against Satan, whatever you go against it all comes back to the Word of God because we’re not there.
Nathan Jones: And there’s a sense of defeatism that Satan is getting more powerful. And we feel like, well, what can we do to stop him? But we got to remember what the Bible says. Like you said earlier, again, Isaiah 14:15, “Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, (the pit) to the lowest depths of the Pit.” We read in Revelation 20 how when Jesus Christ returns in all His glory with us following Him on the white horses, and the angelic world and Satan, and the Antichrist, and the false prophet have their armies there. What happens” Jesus, by just a word speaks and the armies melt, and He takes the Antichrist and false prophet and chucks them in the Lake of Fire, and Satan gets put in a pit for a thousand years. And Jesus does something weird, but He lets Satan out briefly, so the people during the Millennial Kingdom have to choose Him or not. He tries one more time to come up and overthrow Jesus in Jerusalem. Fire comes down. He is thrown into the Lake of Fire, where he will burn forever, and ever, and ever. Our adversary will be defeated. And when we have that in our minds, then the apathy, I think, goes away because we know that we are on the victorious side.
Tim Moore: But the problem is, a lot of people say, well, yes, Satan deserves that. He deserves the wrath of God if he even exists. But the Word of God makes clear that all of us who reject Jesus Christ, we also deserve God’s wrath. And really, that’s the only either or solution, you’re either in Christ or you are outside of the grace of God. So, John 3:36 says, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son?” How do you obey the Son? Well, first of all, by believing in Him, by trusting in Him for your eternal salvation, “will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” So the sad reality not only does Satan get cast aside forever, but those who have rejected Christ, the wrath of God abides on them, and they too have a fate worse than death in terms of what awaits them in eternity.
David Bowen:: The second death. The first death is physical, the second death is spiritual, being separated from God for eternity.
Nathan Jones: And that’s something most people don’t think too is that Hell was created for Satan and demons because of their rebellion against Him. But when we sinned we fell under that same punishment, it’s a just punishment for our continued rebellion against God and our sins. And that’s where Satan is, but it can be our punishment as well if we, like you said, don’t fall under the wrath of God anymore by taking hold of Jesus’ lifeline of salvation.
Tim Moore: Well, I’ll tell you what, Scripture is very clear that the Devil, Satan is the God of this world, that’s from Second Corinthians. He’s the prince of the power of the air, and that he the ruler of the world. I already talked about the 1 John 5, where he is the power that has the whole world lying in his power. But those of us who are in Jesus Christ are more than over comers. Because as first John 4:4 says, “Greater is He who is in us then he who is in the world.”
And so this brings us to the final question: Do you know Jesus Christ? We would encourage you to put your trust in Him today. In other words, is Satan nipping at your heels and whispering lies and accusations in your ear at every turn? In the power of Christ tell him, “Get behind me, Satan.”
Next week, we will examine one more nefarious actor who will soon appear on the world scene the Antichrist. The final mega maniacal world leader will unite the world under a global government. Indwelled by Satan himself halfway through the Tribulation, he will attempt to eradicate Christians and Jews from the face of the Earth. But Christ will crush his head when he returns. Join us for the next episode of Christ in Prophecy, where will we tell you the rest of the story about the dreaded Antichrist. Until then, join Nathan, and Dave, and me in looking for the Blessed Hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Godspeed.
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