Is our world set on a trajectory towards self-destruction? Find out with guests Terry James and Dr. David Reagan and hosts Tim Moore and Nathan Jones on the television program, Christ in Prophecy!
Air Date: January 14, 2023
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Tim Moore: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope. You know, 2022 is behind us and Lamb and Lion Ministries has much to be grateful for. We’ve just completed 44 episodes of Jesus in the Old Testament. And that series was not merely back looking, we highlighted prophetic references to Jesus Christ throughout the Old Testament, including types and Christophanies that foreshadowed His first advent and point to His glorious Second Coming.
Nathan Jones: And many of you have expressed great appreciation for the Jesus in the Old Testament series and for all of the supporting content we have posted online. Most encouraging are the reports of young people being drawn into the series and exposed to the prophecies pointing to Jesus Christ. The spirit of prophecy really is the testimony of Jesus, and we’re so glad that our key verse commentaries have been a blessing to so many as well. In the months to come, we’re going to expand the material that will help you dive deeper into God’s prophetic Word.
Tim Moore: But for today, we want to turn our attention to an exciting new book that captures the moment we are living in. It is called Trajectory: Tracking, the Approaching Tribulation Storm. Nathan and I participated with Dr. David Reagan and Terry James, but the whole project was coordinated by Terry. So, we’re delighted to have both Terry and Dave with us here today.
Terry, you are the editor of this book that enables the ensemble, or brings together really an ensemble cast of authors, and so, all of them have expertise in Bible prophecy. But what motivated you to have this topic on a trajectory at this moment in history?
Terry James: Well, Tim, whenever I start one of these books and I always ask the Lord to show me who He might want in these in these volumes. And the Holy Spirit has never let me down in regard to finding the right authors, you know, like you and Nathan and Dave, we know who the brings the prophetic Word to the Pre-Trib view, and I believe that is the correct view according to God’s Word. So that’s the prayer I enter into this with is please give us the writers You want. And it’s never failed, I’ve done many, many books along this line. I believe that’s what He’s given me to do in this closing days of the Church Age. And so, I’ve done a lot of books written on my own, just a sole author, but I’ve been more blessed than ever by these books of compilation with various authors, because you learn so much and you’re edified. It’s this camaraderie. It’s a brotherly and sisterly friendship, we’ve had some ladies write. And so it’s has been what’s been a wonderful experience in that regard in learning and growing spiritually. And so that’s the way I approached this book and it’s turned out very well. I think it’s one of our very best. And it was thanks to fellas like you, and Dave, and Nathan and so many others. We’ve had some great, great writers in his book.
Nathan Jones: Well, thank you, Terry. It’s been a blessing being in these book projects. Dave and I participated in Deceivers and Discerners and Lawless and now Trajectory.” So. Dave, why do you find that the title Trajectory is so vital and relevant to what’s going on today in America and in the world?
Dr. Reagan: Well, the answer to that is very simple. And that is because our nation is on a trajectory towards self-destruction. And I feel so strongly about that, that I recently wrote a book about it called “America’s Suicide.” And in that book, I point out that our prophetic type in the Bible is the ancient nation of Judah, that whenever God greatly blesses a nation like He did them and us, and then they turn on Him, and begin to shake their fist at Him, and curse Him, and literally forget about Him, God has a way of dealing with that. And the way is He, first of all, sends prophetic voices to the nation, and we’ve had many sent to us. And then secondly, He puts remedial judgments on the nation, calling them to repentance. And if they don’t repent, then it says in Romans chapter one that if they are hardened hearts and they refuse to repent, He will turn the nation over to depraved minds. Which is where we are right now.
You know, every time I think it can’t get worse in America than it is, it gets worse. I mean, every day is some insane idea that somebody comes up with. And so, I think this book is right on target in its timing. I think the Lord delayed its production because it had to come out in perfect timing. And Brother, is this perfect timing?
Tim Moore: It sure is. Well, I will say this, Terry, even as you have brought together these authors, I think in perfect timing as well, how did you get them to contribute their chapters, many different authors, and pull it all together in a timely manner to bring all these divergent viewpoints into a coherent whole and really have some cohesion?
Terry James: Well, I don’t think they had any choice because God got ahold of them, that’s my opinion.
Tim Moore: That’s a good answer.
Terry James: The Holy Spirit, I think, gave them gives the same, just like Dave was explaining about the times and the timing. And we’re at a time, that if ever there was a time for people of Christian faith to know what all of this is about, this madness that we’re seeing, it’s now. And so that’s what we’ve each done, I’ve tried to make it like it’s an approaching storm. The Tribulation storm is an approaching storm. And so, we’re on that trajectory Dave was talking about. We’re headed in that direction very quickly. And the daily, and hourly, even hourly podcasts, newscasts and breaking news, tell us just what kind of trajectory we’re on at the moment. And so, each of these authors have really picked up that prophetic mantle, I guess you’d say, and they have moved forward with these. And I think as far as dissection of the times in which we live, it just is just one of the very best. Tim, I want to thank you for your contribution. You contributed more than anybody, and it’s been right on the money. So, I thank you for that.
Dr. Reagan: Well, Terry, there’s two things that I have noticed about your books over the years that I’ve participate in, one is, if you have a great sense of organization, put these in a great organized manner. And secondly, I guess, due to your advertising background, you come up with the cleverest titles for each chapter. It makes me hungry to read it, just the titles you come up with.
Terry James: The old advertising guy. Yeah.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Nathan Jones: Yeah. Well, if you go back to what you said, Tim, you did write quite a number of pages in this. You wrote the foreword; you wrote chapter three titled Winds of Wars, Rumors and Ethnic Anarchy. As Dave said, clever titles. Chapter 19 North America’s Anti-God Antagonism. Terry, you’re really good with the titles, brother.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Nathan Jones: Well, how did you convey then the sense of inevitability about the path the world is going on?
Tim Moore: I think people can sense it, even if they are not spiritually discerning, because you see the trajectory our own country has been on for these last number of years. Of course, we recently had an election and people get a lot of expectation or hope in the direction an election will forecast where our country is headed. But over the course of the last number of years, I mean, even the last 20 to 30 years, you can see we have devolved tremendously on a societal basis and spiritually, undoubtedly. And so, I think folks begin to realize something is amiss. And that’s exactly what Scripture says. It says that in the end times, the world will be like the days of Noah, we’ve spoken on that many times, with the violence, and the chaos, and the ungodliness, the wickedness. And yet Jesus Himself said there is a wide path that most of the world will travel along, this is in Matthew 7:13-14, but there is a very narrow gate for those who attain salvation through Him. He is the gate. And so, it is a straight and narrow path. But most of the world is on a trajectory very tragically that is headed toward destruction. And so, as John 3:36 says, there is either salvation for an individual or the wrath of God abides on them. And sadly, we see it all around us, where the world is essentially shaking its fist at God. And so just like an arrow in flight, you can predict where it is going to end up because you see all the signs of where we’re headed right now.
Dr. Reagan: I think one of the reasons that people don’t pay much attention to the warnings is because they view God as a cosmic teddy bear who’s going to wink at their sins.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: And He’s going to grade it on a curve.
Tim Moore: Yeah, well, that didn’t work out very good in the Old Testament or the New. Well, Dave, when you wrote about the Tribulation Threshold Signs as your assigned chapter, I have recollected that when you invited me to join with Lamb and Lion Ministries, you hired me and said, I want you to proclaim the signs of the times, that would be our go to message. And so how are those signs really converging today in everything we see in the interplay of what’s going on in the world?
Dr. Reagan: Well, first of all, there are so many signs, it’s hard to get a grasp of them. And probably two or three times more signs about the end times than about the First Coming of Jesus. And I think that’s because God wants us to clearly know the season of the Lord’s return, because He does not wish that any should perish but all be brought to salvation. And these signs are just so numerous. I put them in six categories: signs of nature, signs of society, spiritual signs, of which there’s a lot, both positive and negative. And then the signs of technology, the signs of world politics, and the signs, most important of all, of Israel, because Israel is God’s end time, time clock. And He often will say, watch Israel, and when this happens to Israel, this will happen. And so, they’re God’s end time clock. And what is significant about today is that for the first time in recorded history, all the signs have converged. Convergence is the major sign today. And the fact that they have all converged indicates that we truly are living in the season of the Lord’s return, and we better pay attention to what people are saying.
You know, in the Old Testament, our symbolic type was Judah. And when Jeremiah spoke to the people of Judah and said, if you don’t repent, God’s going to destroy this city and destroy this temple. And their response was, the temple, the temple, the temple, God will never touch our temple. If God would destroy the very temple that His Shekinah glory dwelt in, think what He will do with America. And yet the average American acts like God sits on the throne in an American flag draped in one, and that He would never touch our nation. Well, He will. And He’ll do it just like that.
Tim Moore: He certainly will. You know, the fact that you talked about the convergence, we can look at Jesus’ First Advent and the convergence of natural signs like the Star of Bethlehem. Signs of society, how there was hopelessness amongst most, but just a few discerned that they were living in the season like Simeon and Anna. And then, of course, the signs of the virgin giving birth, so there was convergence of signs pointing to Jesus First Coming as well.
Dr. Reagan: Another thing I’ve noticed, too, Tim, is it seems like even secular writers sense that we are in a special time.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Nathan Jones: And yet the craziness is, when we want to talk about deception is here, look at the 2022 midterm elections. We are saying that everything is going crazy with trying to do forced surgeries on children and drag queen story hours and all this deception going on. But did they switch parties? No, we voted the same crazy people.
Dr. Reagan: A sign of how far our nation has secularized and paganized.
Tim Moore: Sure is.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely.
Tim Moore: There was a transgender candidate that won election in Minnesota to their state legislature. Just this year.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, we’ve firmly embraced the deception. And so, Terry, in chapter two, you wrote The Deluge of Deception. Can you tell us a little bit about the thesis of that chapter?
Terry James: Well, you mentioned a lot of it here. The deception has just been unbelievable. I mean, it’s right down the prophetic line that the last days men will become more evil and they’ll have greater deception foisted upon on the people. And that’s certainly what we have seen. And lately one of the key deception I’ve seen lately really, that really stuck in my mind is this gathering of these people out at the traditional site of Mount Sinai in Egypt. Now, we I believe that most of us believe that the Bible tells us in Arabia, but they they’ve gone to the top of, I guess, Sinai in Egypt, and they’re going to come back with Ten Commandments for all of the evil, against all the evil that humanity has done in the climate. It’s a climate change conference of course, it has the World Economic Forum, and all of these other people, have religious leaders from all over, the economic leaders, governmental leaders. And they’re coming out with this blasphemous, I guess, this blasphemous document trying to mock or mimic, I suppose that is Satan’s purpose.
But this one great deception, media, media, you know, Satan is of prince of the power of the air, he says, and of course, broadcasts over the air, and from that spins cable and all this, and I believe that media is one of the most wicked tools. It’s just a tool, but it is it has been used in wicked ways by Satan. And so, deception is great. And the people themselves are willing because they have fallen minds, so they’ll go for the deception before they will God’s truth.
Tim Moore: And sometimes they like to self-deceive, just as Scripture says the heart is more deceptive than any other thing. And so, I think many people are self-deceived. And Terry, you make the point that not only does this deception play into the end times trajectory we are on, but also the reason why God is staying His hand; why He has not just poured out wrath already, and that is because of His patience hoping that others will join us in putting their faith in Jesus Christ. He doesn’t want any to perish, but for all to be saved.
Dr. Reagan: Terry, your comment reminded me of one of my favorite passages, Psalm 2, which starts off by saying that all of the leaders of the world are shaking their fist at God and saying, “Who are you to tell us what to do?” Nothing has changed.
Tim Moore: No.
Dr. Reagan: But what calms my soul in the midst of all this is what it says next. That while they’re shaking their fist at God and saying, “We’ll do what we please.” God sits in heaven and laughs, not because He’s not concerned, but because He has the wisdom and the power to orchestrate all of the evil of mankind to the triumph of Jesus Christ.
Tim Moore: Amen.
Nathan Jones: Amen.
Terry James: Amen. And he has them in derision, He certainly does. He still is restraining. And so, God the Holy Spirit restraining because the Church is still here indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And can you imagine what kind of evil is going to break forth when that restraining influence, the Holy Spirit is removed with the Church? And of course, He will still be here because He’s omnipresent, but He will be in a different office, I presume. And so, can you imagine the evil, when you see what is going on now? You mean five-year-olds being put before transvestites, how much more Sodom like can you get then that? And Jesus said it’s just going to be like in the days of Sodom when He next intervenes catastrophically into mankind’s history. And the buying, selling, building, doing all the other things which we’re still doing. And it’s going to be a sudden thing, I think, and it’s going to be just like the days of Sodom and Lot’s day, and I believe that’s where we are right now.
Nathan Jones: Let’s go to chapter three Winds of War Rumors and Ethnic Anarchy. Brother, I think of any chapters that’s relevant, we’re seeing the wars, especially between Russia, and Ukraine. They’re breaking out all over the world. Can you tell us a little about what your chapter’s thesis is?
Tim Moore: Well, my chapter thesis is not only the wars that we see of a military nature, but really the conflict between humans. And that is being promoted, if you will, even by the media Terry talked about, because if you look at nation rising against nation in Scripture, many have talked about this, it’s not just nation states as we think of today, it’s people groups and really it’s ethnicities, if I can say the word correctly.
Nathan Jones: Ethnos against ethnos.
Tim Moore: Ethnos against ethnos. So, there are people in our own media who are trying to inspire racial wars. And we know that as Christians there is no difference between humans, and those who have put their faith in Christ there is no distinction in God’s view. And yet that’s what Satan wants to do, is divide us, because by dividing he can conquer. And so over and over again in Scripture, we’re told that there will be division in the end times, there will be strife and turmoil. And we’ve seen it. We saw it just over these last couple of years in our own country as chaos broke out, as there were riots in the street. And yet many of our own leaders not only tolerated that, they celebrated that. And what do they hold out their ire for? Well, just like when Elijah came and met up with Ahab right there at Mount Carmel, Ahab looked down and said, “Oh, is it you, you troubler of Israel?” Dave Reagan has been a trouble for many in leadership now for over 40 years. Terry. We as Christians were considered troublers of our society because we’re holding back this progressive, wicked agenda that many would like to foist on our nation.
Dr. Reagan: Plus, of all things, we are opposed to killing babies.
Tim Moore: Of all things, yes. Health care.
Nathan Jones: Which was the number one voting reason for the Democratic Party in the last election, the murder of babies.
Dr. Reagan: You know, when they started tearing down all of the statues, in the United States it came to me, they were so morally superior talking about how bad these people were because they had slaves. And yet I would be willing to estimate that probably 90% of those involved in tearing down those statues would endorse abortion.
Tim Moore: Oh, more than that.
Dr. Reagan: The killing of babies.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Nathan Jones: Yes. Well, they mask it. They wrap it around something that sounds moral like a woman’s choice.
Tim Moore: Now, there are obviously many chapters, and we could dive into every one of them, but let’s focus on the ones that we wrote. So, Nathan, it’s your turn.
Nathan Jones: Yes.
Tim Moore: Your chapter is entitled Coalescing Supercells Approach. So, what does that mean? Are we talking about storm clouds gathering?
Dr. Reagan: That’s what I thought.
Nathan Jones: Well, obviously Terry, I have no idea what that chapter was, because he gave me one chapter title, and then when we get the book, I look, I’m like let me see my chapter, I was like, oh he changed the title. I have no idea what that means. So let me tell you what I originally was supposed to write about and I did was the Gog and Magog War as found in Ezekiel 38 and 39. How the different players in that we’ve talked about Putin in Russia, we’re talking about Erdogan in Turkey, we’re talking about Iran. And eventually, as they continue to gather together and work together more, we’re seeing that coalition that Ezekiel 38 and 39 describes that will one day come down against Israel. So, there’s three of us who contributed to that. I laid the foundation like who is Beth-Togarmah and all these ancient names are so we could have a modern picture. But what it shows, and this has been fascinating recently, is how we now know what the hook in the jaw that brings Gog down to Israel is, and that is Israel’s super gas find, the Leviathan gas find that Europe is wanting Israel to start shipping, to compete with Russia who 40% of their economy is based on selling oil and natural gas to Europe. So, Israel is now a direct threat to the Russian economy. So, we’re starting to see the hook that’s going to draw them down.
Tim Moore: My goodness. Well, I think we’re seeing it in accelerating tempo as well, because things are happening much quicker than we would have dreamed. As a matter of fact, one of our former presidents, Barack Obama said the Russian bear has been defanged, and yet that is proven to be absolutely false.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, we’ve seen Putin bring Russia back to power. I mean their economy is about the same as Texas, so they’re not as super bad as we think. But they have nuclear weapons and he seems intent on threatening the world with them. So, we read that when the Gog-Magog coalition comes down against Israel, not only does God destroy their armies supernaturally with biblical fire, and hail, and earthquakes and the armies turning on each other, but it also says He sends fire back on their country. So, it could possibly mean that they release the nuclear arsenal and the Lord turns it around and sends it back to their country. So, the future of Russia seems to be a nuclear annihilation.
Tim Moore: Well, many terrible things coming, but we know many glorious things coming for us to put our faith in Christ.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely, because the Jewish people, as a result of the God-Magog War, will give up their secular humanism and they’ll turn to God. They’ll rebuild the temple.
Dr. Reagan: It says they’ll realize that it came from God.
Tim Moore: Yes, they will.
Nathan Jones: They may not accept Jesus yet, but they will accept God again.
Tim Moore: Well, my last chapter, just to cut to the chase, we’ve already been talking about our nation’s trajectory, if you will.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, tell us about that.
Tim Moore: But in terms of North America, I think across the board, at least in Canada and the United States, we’ve seen an abandonment of the Judeo-Christian roots. And Mexico has always been grappling with corruption, with drugs, and warlords, and drug lords, and so that seems to be part and parcel for that society. But how far we have fallen in just these last years. I would make the case that America was at its heyday right after World War II, and not just because we were the victorious superpower emerging on the world scene, but because the United States put its support behind Israel as a new nation upon this earth in the modern era, and so God poured out blessing to and through the United States. But in recent years, we have strayed grievously. As a matter of fact, we’re trying to promote abomination and promote wickedness all around the world. And so, I think that God is going to pour out judgment on this nation. And quite frankly, almost like Judah and Israel before we are held to a higher standard, because as our parents would have said to any of us, we knew better and we knew what the Scripture says.
Dr. Reagan: Well, the Bible says to whom much is given, much is expected.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Who has been given more than us? I mean, the Lord has blessed us, and blessed us.
Tim Moore: And not just materially. We knew what the Word of God said. This nation was founded at least upon Judeo Christian values. And so regardless of whether every founding father was an evangelical Christian, they knew what Scripture said and they honored it.
Dr. Reagan: And one of the things that you’ve mentioned several times is the speed at which all this has occurred. You know, I was in high school in the fifties. That’s how old I am. And in the 1950s is when the Congress adopted, changed the Pledge of Allegiance to say, under God. It’s when Congress adopted In God We Trust as our national motto. And that would be unthinkable for Congress to do that today.
Tim Moore: Surely would. I think that’s another demonstration of how God’s blessing was poured out on us. There was a clarity of vision in that era, and boy, we lost that today. We don’t even have the ability to define what a woman is, according to our newest Supreme Court justice, who is a woman and can’t tell us what one is. I mean, how far gone are we to a depraved mind? It’s just, it’s shocking. So, Terry, we’re going to turn back to you, because in the last chapter, talking about the trajectory we’re on, you make a tremendous allusion to the Titanic and how it was moving forward, unaware that disaster awaited. And of course, even after disaster struck, some people didn’t realize the gravity of their condition for a few hours until they literally were treading water for a short period of time. So, tell us about your final chapter.
Terry James: Well, it just speaks to where we are. So, we have Russia and Gog-Magog coalition forming exactly. We have Europe in great flux. We have China, I think they are the kings of the kings of the east, and they’re threatening places like Taiwan. In my opinion, in order to fulfill Bible prophecy, at some point they are going to have to have a total hegemony in their area, and they’re going to have to because they are kings of the kings of the east and they’re going to bring that 200 million man force, which will be, of course demonic in its part up to the Euphrates River, to separate it between the Occidental and the Oriental world. And they’re going to demon possessed and they’re going to come across and destroy a third of the world. And yet I hear people saying we could have nuclear war, China could launch a nuclear war, Russia could launch a nuclear war, and this sort of thing, but if you understand Bible prophecy you see that that is hardly possible. There may be some nuclear weapons released, but they won’t be all out World War III because these nations still have to fulfill their prophetic destiny. And so, these are all things that are important, in considering this book and considering what Christians should know.
Dr. Reagan: Terry, the last thing I’d like to say about your book is right on the cover from our colleague Jan Markell, she says “If the Tribulation is near, the Rapture of the Church is even closer. This book is a storm warning!”
Tim Moore: Amen. You know, I will say this, Terry, with your analogy of the Titanic, a lot of people still don’t realize that there is disaster lurking ahead, and that in a moment’s time all could change. But there is the possibility of right now grabbing hold of a life preserver that will assure eternal salvation, and that is none other than Jesus Christ. So that is our bottom line. Even as you hear about the approaching tribulation storm, we would encourage every one of you watching today to grab a hold of a life preserver to make sure that you do not sink beneath the waves. Well, Dave, and Terry, Nathan, and I both want to thank you for being here with us today. It’s been a tremendous joy to have you in the studio and through the miracle of modern technology. And so, we look forward to the writing projects God has in store for both of you if Jesus tarries.
Terry James: Well, thank you so much for the invitation.
Tim Moore: Well, and with that, I find it very encouraging that God has indeed raised up prophetic voices to warn a wayward world to flee from the wrath to come. And He has provided men like David Reagan and Terry James to offer encouragement to the Bride of Christ, the Church, as the world grows darker and darker.
Nathan Jones: And we know we win in the end, because Jesus has overcome the world and defeated death itself. Yet while we await our airlift out of this wicked world, it can be discouraging to witness the decline and fall of cultures and societies that we love, let alone individuals we cherish. Well, Jesus told us this would happen, but it really doesn’t make it any easier.
Tim Moore: No, it doesn’t. And that’s why the concept of trajectory is so important. Scripture tells us to train up a child in the way they should go so that when he is old he will not depart from it. That is instilling in a child’s heart a godly trajectory. And in this life headwinds of resistance, crosswinds of cultural confusion and fiery darts that Satan hurls will attempt to knock our children and us off of our target. But it is our responsibility to impart that trajectory and then trust in the Lord, He will keep His sheep on track to enter that narrow gate.
Nathan Jones: Well, this was a meaningful project for all of us to participate in, and there are many more impactful chapters that we don’t have time to unpack today. But you can get a copy of “Trajectory” for only $20 including shipping. It will help you track the approaching tribulation storm and motivate you to redouble your efforts to ensure that your trajectory is still on target.
Tim Moore: And even as we describe in great detail the threats multiplying all around us, our message is not one of doom and gloom, that is the inevitable destiny of all who reject God’s offer of salvation through Jesus Christ, the eternal condition of millions all around us is enough to break our heart and motivate us toward urgent evangelism. But Christians cannot succumb to blind optimism or despairing pessimism. We are people of hope, because our eyes are focused on Jesus Christ, the author and perfector of our faith. Do you know Him? He will either be your holy terror or your blessed hope. The choice and the trajectory you are on is up to you. Until next week this is Tim Moore, along with Nathan Jones saying Godspeed.
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