Dr. David R. Reagan and Don Perkins on the show Christ in Prophecy discuss the misconceptions people have about studying Bible prophecy.
Last aired on September 14, 2008.
Dr. Reagan: Are you one of those who avoids Bible prophecy like a plague, either because you are scared of it or because you consider it impossible to understand? Do you think it is irrelevant to your Christian life? For a discussion of these and other misconceptions about Bible prophecy, stay tuned.
Dr. Reagan: Well greetings in the name of Jesus our blessed hope! I’m Dave Reagan founder and director of Lamb and Lion Ministries and I want to welcome you to Christ in Prophecy. I am delighted once again this week to have as my special guest my dear friend and colleague, Don Perkins, who is founder and director of According To Prophecy Ministries in San Diego, California. Don thanks again for being with us this week.
Don Perkins: Well, so glad to be with you.
Dr. Reagan: We had a lot of fun last week.
Don Perkins: Oh, it was exciting.
Dr. Reagan: And I’m looking forward to having some more this week.
Don Perkins: It’s gonna be good this week, I believe it.
Dr. Reagan: Well, last week folks we talked about false christs and false prophets. This week, we’re gonna talk about false conceptions regarding Bible prophecy. And Don, I’d like to get into this by having you mention a false conception that you mentioned to me right before we went on the air, that you said was very prevalent when you were growing up. What was that?
Don Perkins: It was a conception that if you study Bible prophecy or the book of Revelation it would run you crazy.
Dr. Reagan: Now are you kidding me?
Don Perkins: Kid you not. As a young man, growing up all my life, when I would go to church, that was one thing that I heard.
Dr. Reagan: Did that become a psychological barrier for you?
Don Perkins: It did. When I became a Christian I surrendered my life to the Lord, as a Christian I would never go into the book of Revelation. And Dave, there are many people today I know that are hindered because they were taught the same thing.
Dr. Reagan: That they’ll go crazy.
Don Perkins: They’ll go crazy. And you know it wasn’t until the Lord called me to this area of ministry that I found out the blessing. Revelation 1 tells you, “Blessed are those that read here and study.”
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, Revelation 1:3, it’s the only book of the Bible that says, if you’ll read this book, it’s gonna bless your socks off, right?
Don Perkins: Dave, I’ve been blessed, I’ve been blessed.
Dr. Reagan: I have too, Don. No book as blessed me more than the book of Revelation. It is truly a blessing. And isn’t it amazing, when I was growing up the misconception that I heard over and over preached from the pulpit was, no one can understand the book of Revelation. It is a Chinese puzzle beyond understanding.
Don Perkins: Yes.
Don Perkins: Why would God give us a book that nobody can understand? I tell people all the time, I say, you know, why would God do that? Why would He give us something that He didn’t want us to understand?
Dr. Reagan: Well, I just think it’s a satanic thing. Satan does not want anybody reading the book of Revelation, no one.
Don Perkins: That’s true.
Dr. Reagan: Because the book of Revelation says Satan is going to be totally defeated and Jesus is going to be completely triumphant.
Don Perkins: Well you know, I came to have revelation Dave when I started studying, I said, now I understand why I was fed that lie, because I see the end, the demise of the devil.
Dr. Reagan: In fact, you know, I ran from the Lord as hard as I could for 20 years, something I’m not proud of, and when I finally gave in, the Lord handed me this ministry. I would get up and start to preach or teach and boy the devil would come all over me and say, “Who are you to preach? Who are you to teach? Don’t you remember when you…” and a litany of my sins would run by me. But when I got in the book of Revelation, I learned that the book of Revelation can be used for spiritual warfare.
Don Perkins: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: And here’s how I use it. Every time Satan tries to remind me of my past, I remind him of his future and you know what he does? He tucks tail and runs.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: And I know his future because I know the book of Revelation.
Don Perkins: The Word of God is so clear.
Dr. Reagan: Well, let me share another misconception with you and see how you respond to it. It’s one that I hear about all the time, in fact I got a letter recently from a fellow and in that letter he said, “I don’t like Bible prophecy because it’s too depressing.” He said, “It’s all about blood and gore and beasts and things that go bump in the dark.”
Don Perkins: Well, you know if you only study that part of it. You know, you’ve got to understand the book of Revelation, Bible prophecy there are so many wonderful things in it. As a matter of fact, when you look at the book of Revelation the last chapters talk about eternal bliss. In other words, what eternity is going to look like for the redeemed. Now, I will admit there are some very hard chapters in the book of Revelation. The great tribulation, the Bible is clear in its description of how that event is going to look, but it doesn’t stay there. You know, many people throw the babe out with the bath water because they look at the signs, they look at the trumpet judgments and those things, but they never look at anything else in the book of Revelation as a blessing.
Dr. Reagan: Well, you’re right, the book of Revelation has a lot of terrible things in it in terms of the wrath of God being poured out upon this earth so does the book of Isaiah.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: But the thing that we need to remind people of is that in Bible prophecy there is only good news for those who know the Lord!
Don Perkins: Those that are redeemed.
Dr. Reagan: The last book of the Old Testament, the book of Malachi says that when the Lord returns it says that those who have rejected Him are going to suffer the wrath of God and it’s gonna be a terrible day for them. In fact, some of the Scriptures say the presidents, prime ministers of the world are gonna crawl into holes in the ground and cry for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them. But it says, for those who are believers, they’ll go forth like a calf released from a stall, and act plum silly waving their hands, dancing and shouting, “Hallelujah, here he comes!”
Don Perkins: Full of joy and happiness.
Dr. Reagan: There’s only good news for believers.
Don Perkins: And see again, many people again throw the babe out with the bath water because they don’t really understand. I really think Dave you must be a student of the Scripture to really understand Bible prophecy.
Dr. Reagan: Alright, here’s another one I hear a lot. Bible prophecy is impossible to understand because it’s just full of symbolism.
Don Perkins: Well, you know, symbols Dave, symbols point to a literal event. Symbols always help you to better understand a literal thing, and really I mean, I think in that regard, people need to understand that symbols point to something that’s literal, or it gives us a clear picture of a literal event.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Don Perkins: So, again, if you symbolize all of the book of Revelation then you will get into trouble on prophecy.
Dr. Reagan: Well, you know, the thing about symbols too is that symbols as you say, they stand for something literal, but usually the Bible tells you what it is.
Don Perkins: Exactly.
Dr. Reagan: I mean, for example, in the book of Revelation. Jesus is pictured standing among some candlesticks, but it tells you who the candlesticks represent, churches.
Don Perkins: It interprets it.
Dr. Reagan: It says He has stars in His right hand, it tells you, the stars represent the pastors or the angels of those particular churches, the messengers of those churches. Usually, for example, the book of Revelation says that when the Jews flee from Jerusalem in the middle of the tribulation, they will flee on the wings of a great eagle. People say, “Ah ha! That means the United States is gonna provide the airlift because our symbol is an eagle.” But if you go back and look at the Bible, the Bible’s its own best interpreter the same term is used when they fled out of Egypt.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: All it means is it’s a symbol of God’s protection for them.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: So yes, they’re symbols but the symbols have a meaning.
Don Perkins: But the safety of that Dave is the Scripture, the Scripture will always have to interpret that.
Dr. Reagan: And all of Bible prophecy is not symbolic. I mean, you take the book of Zechariah, it says the Messiah is coming on a donkey, He’s gonna be hailed as king, He’s going to be betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver, 30 pieces of silver will be used to buy a plot of land, He’ll be lifted up, He’ll be pierced. All that meant what it said.
Don Perkins: Literal.
Dr. Reagan: If the plain sense makes sense don’t look for any other sense or you will end up with what?
Don Perkins: Nonsense.
Dr. Reagan: Nonsense. And that is so true, that is so true. You know, I really believe Don that the greatest problem that you run into here, well, I’ll get into that in a moment. I want to bring up another misconception and that is that Bible prophecy is irrelevant to contemporary Christian living.
Don Perkins: You know that one really gets me.
Dr. Reagan: I hear it all the time. Pastors tell me that! You can’t tie it into today’s life. It’s all pie in the sky.
Don Perkins: Sweet by-and-by.
Dr. Reagan: I’ve got to talk about contemporary problems.
Don Perkins: I’ve gotta help people today. Well, I don’t know of a better book that will help you in contemporary living. You know, for me, Bible prophecy, this message has really put an urging in my heart, it has given me a hope that helps me to live in this relevant day.
Dr. Reagan: I found Don that if you can ever convince a Christian of two things, really convince them, number one, Jesus is coming back. Now, the average Christian says yes, he’s coming back, but they believe it here, they don’t believe it here.
Don Perkins: Right.
Dr. Reagan: When you believe it here, you start living.
Don Perkins: That’s right. But as long as you believe it here, it’s just a mental thing. But, if you can ever convince them, number one, Jesus is really coming back, and number two, that is an event that could occur any moment, their lives will be transformed. Changed, totally changed. They will commit their lives to holiness. You won’t have to preach against drinking, you won’t have to preach against gambling you won’t preach against promiscuous sex, people will put it aside.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: And number two, it is the greatest motivator I know of for evangelism. People will start sharing the word, how can anything be more practical than that?
Don Perkins: It’s so practical, I mean, I was in a conference, I was gonna do a meeting and the pastor cancelled the meeting because he thought it wasn’t relevant, it wasn’t evangelistic enough.
Dr. Reagan: Another misconception. People say, well, we don’t ever get into Bible prophecy at our church because Bible prophecy is too controversial, it’s divisive it will just split the church.
Don Perkins: Again, people are not studying. They don’t want to spend time to study the Scripture so they pick and choose little pieces of prophecy and they cause confusion.
Dr. Reagan: Well, you know, a pastor said that to me, I said, “Well, it can be if you bring a guy in with a chip on his shoulder because there are people who go around who their only purpose is to try to prove everybody else in the world is wrong except them.” But if a guy comes in and just preaches the word, that’s not gonna be divisive and controversial, I mean, if people don’t agree with him they’re gonna have to scratch their heads and go to the Word and pick up their arguments with God not with him.
Don Perkins: See, one thing I like about what you just said Dave, going to the Word. See, going to the Word and proving the point that you make, you can’t fight against the Scriptures, you know, the Scripture is not divisive.
Dr. Reagan: Well, another of those misconceptions I would argue is the one I hear a lot that says, well, you can’t understand Bible prophecy unless you have PhD in hermeneutics, whatever that is. I always want to say, “Herman who?” A PhD in hermeneutics which is the interpretation of Scripture, or you have to have a vivid imagination but otherwise, you just can’t understand Bible prophecy. Do you have to have a PhD to understand Bible prophecy?
Don Perkins: I don’t Dave.
Dr. Reagan: I know you understand it.
Don Perkins: I understand it, because of His grace. I’m a student of the Scripture.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I do have a PhD but mine’s in international law in politics and I still understand Bible prophecy.
Don Perkins: Dave, God will open this Book to you.
Dr. Reagan: I tell you what you’ve gotta have. You’ve gotta have the Holy Spirit and you’ve gotta lean on the Spirit.
Don Perkins: I always pray, “Holy Spirit, open unto me the Scriptures.” You know, Jesus did that to His disciples and when He took them through the Scripture, the Bible says He showed them the prophesies where it was written of Him. And the Scriptures says their hearts burned within them as He opened unto them the Scriptures.
Dr. Reagan: Oh man, yeah.
Don Perkins: And see, that’s my prayer. When I study Revelation, I say Father open up my heart.
Dr. Reagan: Amen.
Don Perkins: Holy Spirit give me understanding. And it’s amazing! Like a light bulb you know that Ford has a good idea, that light clicks? It clicks in my heart and spirit and God helps us to understand.
Dr. Reagan: It doesn’t mean you’re gonna understand everything.
Don Perkins: No, no.
Dr. Reagan: But the more you study, the more you’ll understand, and if you lean on the Spirit.
Don Perkins: The clearer it gets, the longer you study too.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, one last one I want to mention here, and this just pains me, it really pains me. I hear pastors say this so often. “What difference does it make what you believe about prophecy? After all, it’s all gonna pan-out in the end. You see, I’m a pan-millennialist!”
Don Perkins: Right. And I normally tell them that they are lazy believers, because see, again, I believe in this time, especially in this hour Dave. I believe that every Christian needs to understand and know what he believes scripturally. You know, you need to know what the Word of God says, and you need to be firm in your belief structure. You know, many people have taken that position because they don’t want to spend time just studying.
Dr. Reagan: Well, when a person says that to me it just says, “I don’t consider it important enough to even study it.” And yet that’s one third of God’s word.
Don Perkins: Well, Dave, it’s the end of the story, it’s the end of the Book! I tell people this, I say, how many people get a novel, you read the beginning of the novel, the middle of the novel, and then you throw the book away? By the end you are salivating! I want to know who killed who, who did what in that novel. Well, you know the Bible is the only Book that we do that too.
Dr. Reagan: Don I have to tell you, one time I was at a prophecy conference and we were having our favorite part, and you know what that is, questions and answers. And a guy got up and he said, “Well, you know, I just don’t know about all this, you say you’re Premillennial, they say they’re Amillennial, they say their Postmillennial, I’m a pan-millennialist, I just believe it’s all gonna pan-out in the end. What do you think about that?” Dennis Pollock said, “I think you’d make a good member of the know-nothing party!” That was a political party that was in the United States before the civil war, you know. He said, “You’d make a good member of the know-nothing party, you don’t know nothing and you’re proud of it!”
Don Perkins: Wow. You know, I really believe this Dave that God challenges us as Christians and students of the Scripture to understand. You know if we spend time God will show us, He will teach us clearly. And you know, again, that pan view is a bad view. I get this all the time, too. They tell me, “You know, you preachers, you prophecy guys are so heavenly minded that you’re no earthly good.” You know, and they discount prophecy along those same lines. And I tell them, I say, you know, you need to be heavenly minded that you are earthly good, you know, when you have a proper understanding of the future, it’s gonna effect the way you live today.
Dr. Reagan: The Word itself says that all of God’s word is profitable.
Don Perkins: Profitable, yes.
Dr. Reagan: And subject for studying and you know, and that means all of it including Bible prophecy. Well, folks, in just a moment we’re gonna shift our attention from misconceptions about the nature of Bible prophecy, to misconceptions about the meaning of prophecy. But first, let’s pause for a word about a book that will help you to understand Bible prophecy.
Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to our discussion of misconceptions regarding Bible prophecy. Again, I am delighted to have my colleague Don Perkins here with me. And Don, I’d like for you to just take a moment to tell folks how they can get in touch with your ministry.
Don Perkins: Well, it’s very, very easy. You can reach us on the internet. Our web address is www.According2Prophecy.Org, very easy to reach us.
Dr. Reagan: And I encourage you to get in touch with his ministry, that website has a wealth of information on it and you can also send Don questions through the website and you can also contact him about speaking at your particular church. Well, let’s get back to our topic of misconceptions concerning Bible prophecy. In the first part of this program we talking about misconceptions regarding the nature of Bible prophecy, in this one I want to talk about some misconceptions regarding the interpretation of Bible prophecy, ok?
Don Perkins: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: And Don, I think it’ll start off this segment by just talking a little bit about what I consider to be the number one problem when it comes to the interpretation of Bible prophecy. You got any idea of what I might mention?
Don Perkins: Spiritualization?
Dr. Reagan: You took the words right out of my mouth! Yeah, that’s it. I know that anybody who teaches Bible prophecy feels that spiritualization is probably the number one abuse that you can get into.
Don Perkins: Yes, yes.
Dr. Reagan: And folks, let me just explain to you for a moment what I mean by spiritualization. I’m saying that most people when they approach Bible prophecy, approach it with the attitude that it doesn’t mean what it says, it must mean something else. When, the rule that I follow for all of the Bible, from beginning to end, whether it’s prophecy or not, it if the plain sense makes sense, don’t look for any other sense or you will end up with nonsense! God wants to communicate. He knows how to communicate. He says what He means, He means what He says. You don’t have to play games.
And I want to give you an example of what I mean by spiritualization. Over in the book of Revelation in chapter seven, it says that at the beginning of the tribulation there’s going to be 144,000 Jews who are going to be sealed by the Lord, that means they’re gonna become believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. They’re gonna be supernaturally protected for the entire period of the Tribulation, and the indication is they will go forth all over the world, preaching the gospel, and many people, Don, will come to the Lord as a result of their testimony. Well, folks, one time I got a whole bunch of commentaries on the book of Revelation, I bet I got at least 30-40 commentaries, and looked to see what they said Revelation seven meant. 85% of them said, “Well, this is talking about the Church.” Talking about the Church when it’s talking about 144,000 Jews and it tells you exactly what tribes they’re gonna come from? And you spiritualize that and say, “Oh no, it couldn’t be Jews, it has to be the Church.” That’s an example of spiritualization, saying the Bible doesn’t mean what it says. Zechariah 14 says, “in the end times when Jerusalem is about to fall, the Lord will come back to the Mount of Olives, when His foot touches the mountain it will split in half, it will speak a supernatural word, the antichrist and his forces will be destroyed, and on that day He’ll become King over all the other earth.” One of the foremost theologians of the 20th century said, “That doesn’t mean that! What it means is the Mount of Olives is the human heart, it’s surrounded by sin, when you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior He comes and stands on your heart, your heart breaks in contrition and He becomes king of your heart.” You know why people like to spiritualize? It’s because they become God when they spiritualize. When you spiritualize, scripture means anything you want it to mean.
Don Perkins: And it’s easy to interpret that way. Again, you must be a student of the Scriptures to understand. I mean, it’s that simple.
Dr. Reagan: Okay. Let’s get into some modern misconceptions about the meaning of Bible prophecy. One that I hear over and over and over and comes from very sincere people who are really interested in Bible prophecy. When I get up and preach that Jesus is coming soon and He could come any moment they always say, “No, no, no, no, no! Jesus cannot return until the gospel is preached to the whole world, because Jesus himself said that in Matthew 24. The gospel will be preached to the whole world, and then the end will come.”
Don Perkins: Dave, what they are misunderstanding about that is that those signs that Jesus gave in the gospel, Matthew 24, Luke 21, those are signs that point to the literal return of Christ and not the Rapture.
Dr. Reagan: The Second Coming of Christ, when He comes to this earth.
Don Perkins: There are some physical prophesies that must take place before He can literally, physically come back in the Second Coming, but there are no signs that point to the Rapture of the Church.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what people don’t understand is that the return of Jesus is going to be in two stages.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: The second coming is in two stages, first, the Rapture then later on the Second Coming. The Rapture He doesn’t even return to earth, He appears in the heavens. And that could happen in the middle of this program.
Don Perkins: Anytime, I’m ready to go.
Dr. Reagan: I am too. But the second coming, there’s a lot of prophesies that.
Don Perkins: That’s right.
Dr. Reagan: And further more, with regard to the gospel being preached to the whole world, we’re in the process of doing that right now through modern technology.
Don Perkins: Internet, everything.
Dr. Reagan: I remember a few years ago I bought a short wave radio, first time I’d ever had one and I started turning that dial and Don, I couldn’t believe it. As I turned that dial I heard the name of Jesus in every language of the world. The atmosphere of this planet is saturated with the name of Jesus. And you’ve got television, you’ve got the Jesus film, it goes on and on and on. But, the ultimate fulfillment of that prophecy is going to be near the end of the tribulation. In Revelation 14 we’re told a gospel angel will go forth, circumnavigate the globe and preach the Gospel to every person.
Don Perkins: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Before God pours out his final wrath.
Don Perkins: You know, Dave that Scripture also talks about when they preach the Gospel. Most people think that means that when the Gospel is preached everyone will accept it. The Bible says it’s gonna be a witness against. The Gospel will be preached and people will accept or some will not accept.
Dr. Reagan: Ok, let’s go to another misconception. People say the Church is the fulfillment of all the kingdom promises in the Bible. In other words, there’s no kingdom yet to come, the kingdom has come. In fact, I grew up in a church that believed this. They believed it so strongly we were not allowed to say the Lord’s Prayer. Because in the Lord’s Prayer it says, “Thy kingdom come,” they said “it’s already come.”
Don Perkins: Dave that is so dangerous to come. The church has not replaced Israel. There are physical prophecies that must take place in the future. Christ will sit on the physical throne of His father David. The Bible says that, there are literal prophecies regarding the kingdom where Christ will literally fulfill those prophecies. Isaiah 9, the Bible says the government will be on His shoulders. Now, we know Christ rules and reigns within us, that’s true. But there’s coming a time when we must–
Dr. Reagan: He doesn’t reign over the nations of the world.
Don Perkins: He sure doesn’t. He must and He will come to physically reign.
Dr. Reagan: You know, that’s one of the fundamental teachings of Amillennialism is the idea that Jesus is reigning over the whole world right now through His Church.
Don Perkins: And the kingdom is here.
Dr. Reagan: Well, folks, if He’s reigning over the nations of the world today, He’s doing a very poor job of it because every one of them is in rebellion against Him.
Don Perkins: I mean if you watch the local news you would know that Jesus is not reigning over all the nations.
Dr. Reagan: Absolutely. You know, I got to thinking about this one time it occurred to me that God’s always had a kingdom on this earth. His original kingdom were the patriarchs who responded to him in faith, then the kingdom became more manifest in Israel. Then the kingdom because more manifest in the Church, and then the kingdom’s going to become more manifest in the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ. But even then, it’s gonna become permanent on the new earth.
Don Perkins: That’s right,
Dr. Reagan: When Jesus surrenders the kingdom to His Father. And it will truly be a theocratic kingdom where God will rule. Well, I was gonna ask you about the next one I had on my list here was the Church has replaced Israel and inherited its blessings, but you already jumped into that and said that’s nonsense.
Don Perkins: Yes, that’s nonsense. I mean, those prophecies, they are physical prophecies. The fact that Israel is a nation today tells me that that is not so.
Dr. Reagan: Well, you know, this replacement theology has resulted in more anti-Semitism than any other thing. For 2,000 years both the Catholic Church and Protestantism has taught that the Church replaced Israel. God washed His hands of Israel, has no purpose left for Israel, Israel today is an accident of history. It’s nonsense.
Don Perkins: It’s nonsense.
Dr. Reagan: Read Romans 9-11! God has a plan for Israel. Well, all through the Old Testament it says so, and Romans 9-11 says, “Has God washed his hands of Israel because of their unbelief?” The church for 2000 years they say yes! What does Paul say?
Don Perkins: No. God has not, that’s right. God forbid.
Dr. Reagan: The Church doesn’t like those three chapters, nine, ten and eleven of Romans.
Don Perkins: But in nine, ten, eleven Paul gives a stern warning to the Church not to exalt themselves against Israel because God has a future plan for them.
Dr. Reagan: Well, let’s go to another misconception that to me in the weirdest thing I have ever heard taught in Bible prophecy. I do not know of anything weirder than this, and yet there are people all over the place being deceived by it. And that is, the teaching that the prophecies in the book of Revelation were all fulfilled in 70 AD when God poured out his wrath on Jerusalem. Can you believe this?
Don Perkins: Well, Dave, listen I’ve studied the book of Revelation, and the end of the book of Revelation tells me that I’m gonna spend eternity in an eternal world with my God. If the book of Revelation is complete today, what I’m seeing today is not what the book of Revelation teaches. You know, that book was not complete, it was not fulfilled. There is teaching that Nero, he was the antichrist, I mean, again, all those are false views.
Dr. Reagan: Well, not only that Don but that whole theology depends on one thing. That the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD, and all the evidence, internal, external, everything, says it was written in 95 AD. In fact, the Early Church Fathers state that point blank, it’s when it was written. And that’s when Domitian began to persecute the church. The persecution under Nero was a concentrated persecution in Roman, Domitian, it was all over the empire, and that occurred in 95 AD.
Don Perkins: You know, for them to teach that the book of Revelation is complete, Dave, again, they’re spiritualizing a lot of things, they actually–
Dr. Reagan: Oh yeah, everything has to be spiritualized.
Don Perkins: They’re making things that really do not fit.
Dr. Reagan: You know, every time I hear somebody say that all the prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD it reminds me of Paul saying, “Avoid these two guys!” and named them because he said they teach the resurrection has already occurred, had already past, right. These guys, the most radical of them, are teaching that the Second Coming has already occurred.
Don Perkins: Dave, one danger of that view, that belief, that misconception is that it robs the Church of the hope of eternity. I mean, again, if the book of Revelation is complete, then this is all we have to look forward to.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what about this one? The church is destined to take over the world and reign over it for a thousand years, and then the Lord will return.
Don Perkins: Now that’s a falsehood for sure. That is a misconception because it’s totally out of sync with the Scriptures, let me say it that way. You know, we know that the Church will be Raptured we know that the Church will come back with Christ, going into the Millennial Kingdom, but you know, the Church will not fulfill that event and then Christ comes back.
Dr. Reagan: Well this turns it all upside, this has us presenting the kingdom of Jesus.
Don Perkins: Yes, yes, it won’t happen.
Dr. Reagan: Jesus is coming to establish the kingdom!
Don Perkins: Well, you know Dave, the Millennial Kingdom is a good example of man running the kingdom. You know, even though Christ will be here, even though Christ will be a man, we’ll still have sin. It’s gonna be like God’s last attempt to show man that you cannot live it without Me.
Dr. Reagan: Again, you’d have to spiritualize a lot of Scripture to say that the Church is going to take over the world. Jesus said that the vast majority of people will always reject the Gospel. The Church is not gonna take over the world.
Don Perkins: No, it won’t happen.
Dr. Reagan: Jesus is gonna take over this world!
Don Perkins: Here’s the thing that many people today are trying to get people into politics to change the government to make this Millennial Kingdom come to pass.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I’ve got to get this one in, Don. There is absolutely nothing that can be known about the timing of the Lord’s return, might as well forget just forget about it, not even think about it.
Don Perkins: Well, I don’t believe that because the Scripture says, “And that knowing the time,” the Romans, it says, “and that knowing the time that now it is high time to wake out of sleep.” How can we know the time? Now it doesn’t mean that we know the actual date.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, no, no.
Don Perkins: But Christ has given us indicators.
Dr. Reagan: The season of his return.
Don Perkins: The season, the point to his return.
Dr. Reagan: Well, He said when you see these things, you’ll know I’m at the very gates, I’m about to return. Hebrews 10 says, there’s things you can see that will, you’ll know that you’re in the end times.
Don Perkins: Where we see the indicators is proof to us that He’s at hand. I mean for me, because I understand the signs of the time, the indicators, it has put an urgency in my heart to evangelize. See, I can see the indicators, the nation of Israel is here.
Dr. Reagan: 100 years ago today, there was not one single tangible measurable sign.
Don Perkins: Right.
Dr. Reagan: The first one was November 1917 with the issuance of the Balfour declaration. Today there are so many signs it’s like God has a neon light in the sky flashing on and off saying, “Jesus is coming soon! Jesus is coming soon!”
Don Perkins: There’s so many Dave, you can’t keep up with it, but there are many signs and we can know that the season is near.
Dr. Reagan: Well, we’ll have you come back sometime and we’ll talk about those signs.
Don Perkins: I’ll look forward to it.
Dr. Reagan: Ok. Well folks, our time is almost up. I want to thank my guest Don Perkins once again for sharing his time and his knowledge with us this week. Don, you are a joy and you are a blessing and may the Lord go with you, may He prosper you and may He magnify your voice across this nation and around the world.
Don Perkins: Thank you.
Dr. Reagan: Well, that’s it for this week, until next week the Lord willing, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near!”
End of Program