The Rapture with Marsha Kuhnley

Do you have a question about the Rapture? Join guest Marsha Kuhnley for the answers on the show Christ in Prophecy.

Air Date: September 20, 2020

Video References

rapture911.com

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Transcript

Dr. Reagan: What is the Rapture? When is it most likely to happen? What are likely to be the secular explanations of it? How can we prepare for it? Will there be any hope for those who are left behind? Stay tuned for a discussion of these and other questions about the Rapture.

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Part 1

Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Colonel Tim Moore and I have a very special guest with us today. She is Marsha Kuhnley from Albuquerque, New Mexico, and she has written an outstanding book about the Rapture, called, “Rapture 911” and the subtitle is “What to Do if You Are Left Behind.” Welcome, to Christ in Prophecy, Marsha.

Marsha Kuhnley: Well, thanks for inviting me. I’m so excited to be here.

Tim Moore: Marsha, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure, so, I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico with my husband. I was born and raised there. And let’s see as far as my education I have a bachelor’s degree in economics, and I have an MBA in finance and information systems. Yup. Prior to becoming a Bible prophecy author, I enjoyed a nice career at Intel Corporation.

Tim Moore: Wow, alright.

Dr. Reagan: Well, with that kind of background how in the world did you end up writing books about Bible prophecy?

Marsha Kuhnley: That’s an interesting question, Dave. So, I think a nice way to think about economics is that it is just the study of people in the business of life. And what a better way to study life and the business of it then through the Bible. And since I was passionate about Bible prophecy, I think it is just a great fit. I think God knew what He was doing.

Dr. Reagan: I’m always interested in people who have a background like that and then suddenly get over into writing about theology. My background was I have a doctor’s degree in international law and politics, and I taught that for 20 years until the Lord called me into this ministry. And I didn’t realize that the entire 20 years He was preparing me for this ministry because when I got into it, it was all about international politics in the end times.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Tim Moore: So, how did you initially become acquainted with Bible prophecy, and your faith as a Christian.

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure, so I got saved right when I was about 30 years of age, and one of the first things I wanted to learn about was God’s promise for eternal life. So, the first book I read as a new Christian, was Randy Alcorn’s book “Heaven.”

Dr. Reagan: Wow, that’s a good one.

Tim Moore: Yes.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, yes, I love it. That book introduced me to the Rapture concept. And I was so fascinated that there was going to be this generation of people who were going to get raptured, and never taste death. So, I really wanted to learn more. So, I searched for some books, and I found Terry James’ book, “The Departure,” and learned all sorts of things about the Rapture, the end times, and that is what hooked me. I’ve been studying Bible prophecy ever since.

Tim Moore: So, kind of self-taught in terms of looking for materials, and obviously reading the Bible itself as well.

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure, yeah.

Dr. Reagan: Well, the Lord really led you to some good writers there.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Randy Alcorn’s book on Heaven I think’s the best one that has ever been written on the topic. And then Terry James we have him on this program many times. Have you ever met Terry?

Marsha Kuhnley: I haven’t met Terry.

Dr. Reagan: Did you know he’s blind?

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, well he’s an amazing guy. And he just cranks out book after book. And the last three we’ve had, Nathan Jones, and I have both had chapters in those books. He’s getting ready to come out with a new one right now. You know when I first started studying Bible prophecy I prayed to the Lord, I said, “Lead me to something good to read.” And He did. It was, “Revelation Illustrated and Made Plain,” by Tim LaHaye. I didn’t know who Tim LaHaye was at the time, but that’s the first book I read on Bible prophecy.

Marsha Kuhnley: Nice.

Dr. Reagan: So, with regard to the Rapture why do you believe it is going to happen before the Tribulation begins?

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. Well, we know that the Tribulation is a period of God’s wrath upon sin. And the Bible is very clear in telling us that people who have put their faith in Jesus Christ are not meant for wrath; there is no more condemnation for believers anymore. The other thing that we can consider is that the Bible tells us that believers are the body of Christ. So, one of the things that we can keep in mind is that Jesus already took God’s wrath for sin upon His body when He died on the cross for us. So, believers today, we are not meant for that Tribulation period, and God’s wrath because Jesus already took it. And the Bible is full of examples, or at least two major examples, to illustrate that God always removes His righteous before He inflicts wrath, and Noah and Lot are those two examples for us.

Dr. Reagan: What do you consider to be the most important argument on behalf of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure. I think there are a couple scriptures that really help us hone in the timing of the Rapture.

Dr. Reagan: Okay.

Marsha Kuhnley: First in John chapter 14, and the other one is 2 Thessalonians 2. So, in John chapter 14, you might remember that Jesus is having a conversation with His disciples. And He tells them that He is going to His Father’s house, which is Heaven, to prepare a place for them. And that when it is ready He is going to come back and get them, so, that His disciples, His believers can be there with Him where He is. Now, we know that that scripture has to be a reference to the Rapture because Jesus is taking believers from earth and taking them to Heaven.

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Marsha Kuhnley: At the Second Coming when Jesus comes He leaves Heaven and comes down to earth to be with us here. And at the Second Coming once Jesus is here He doesn’t ever leave again.

Dr. Reagan: Right.

Marsha Kuhnley: He is here for forever.

Dr. Reagan: In the Rapture He just appears; He never comes to earth.

Marsha Kuhnley: Right, right, exactly. So, John chapter 14 Jesus Himself is telling us that this Rapture event has to happen before His Second Coming.

Dr. Reagan: But I’m interested that you mentioned the second scripture being 1 Thessalonians 2.

Marsha Kuhnley: 2 Thessalonians 2.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, because that is the scripture that people use all the time to argue against a Pretribulation Rapture.

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh. Yeah, so I actually think it really hones in the timing for us, and shows us that it has to be before the Tribulation itself. So, in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 the Apostle Paul is talking more about the Rapture. And in the first part of that chapter, if you read your Bible, most Bibles say that the apostasy or the rebellion, or the falling away has to happen before the Antichrist can be revealed. Well, Bible scholars today are realizing that that particular word wasn’t translated very well, in our current versions of the Bible. If we go to some of the original English translations.

Dr. Reagan: All of them.

Tim Moore: All of them.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, that phrase says, “the departure.” So, the Apostle Paul is speaking of a literal event, the departure. And the Apostle Paul spoke about the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4.

Tim Moore: Yes, he did.

Marsha Kuhnley: So, he’s just kind of giving us a little bit more details here in 2 Thessalonians. So, he says, this event, the departure, has to happen before the Antichrist can be revealed. And then further along in 2 Thessalonians 2 he tells us that this restrainer has to be removed before the Antichrist can come as well. And if we think about it, the Antichrist is going to be possessed by Satan. And there is only one thing in the universe that can hold back that power of Satan, and its Jesus. And all of us believers are filled with Jesus’ Holy Spirit today. So, the Apostle Paul is telling us two things: the departure, which is the Rapture has to happen, and it’s that removal of the Holy Spirit, or believers, that is that departure.

Tim Moore: I love the fact that you go to Thessalonians. I tell people, and even as a new believer, you were drawn to learning about the Rapture, and understanding the end times.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah.

Tim Moore: I tell people that this is not some esoteric theological concept that we need to wait years, and years after we’ve been a Christian and eventually get around to. Paul when he was declaring the Gospel to the people in Thessalonica, in a matter of weeks had already introduced the Rapture, which why they were writing him letters asking questions. And he responded in 1 and 2 Thessalonians with more information, or to expound upon what he had already shared with them in a very short time when he first introduced to them to the Gospel, and the Lord’s coming as part of the Rapture and then the Second Coming.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Tim Moore: Another thing that I’m fascinated by in your book, “Rapture 911,” Marsha, is the fact that you talk about what will be some of the secular explanations for the Rapture; when Christians all over the world are taken away, snatched away in a twinkling of an eye. The secular world will have some very strange explanations for what has happened. So, what do you think will be their explanations?

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. So, I have a whole section of chapters in “Rapture 911” where I talk about lies that are going to be prevalent after the Rapture. Now, of course there are going to be several explanations for what happened. Of course, there is going to be alien abduction. We know that aliens are fallen angels, they are demons, and Satan is going to want to take credit for what has just happened. So, I think that is going to be a prominent one. I also think that the New Age folks are going to say, “I told you so,” when millions of people across the planet disappear. They are going to think that folks that were unenlightened have been removed.

Dr. Reagan: That’s going to be a very popular one because it was in the 70’s in fact that the New Age Movement announced to the world the masters of the universe have revealed to us the day is coming when they are going to take everybody off this earth who lived by faith, so that we who live by reason can continue in our evolutionary development. And they’ll just say, “See, we told you.”

Marsha Kuhnley: Yup, that’s sad.

Tim Moore: As a matter of fact, I find it fascinating, the very lies that you’ve discussed have already been perpetrated upon the world and they are growing in their impact even today. It’s fascinating.

Dr. Reagan: Any other explanations.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, there are two more I’d like to discuss with you two. The first one is really interesting it is the Simulation Hypothesis. So, if folks have seen the movie, “The Matrix” this is going to be familiar to them. So, essentially there are people who believe that everything that you can see and touch isn’t real. They think that we are living in a simulated reality, that essentially it is all computer code.

Dr. Reagan: Oh, this is computer code?

Marsha Kuhnley: That is what they believe. Now, when the Rapture happens they are going to think it proves their hypothesis correct; that we are in fact living in this simulated reality. And that the folks that disappeared essentially just got removed from the simulation.

Dr. Reagan: They are no longer in the computer code.

Marsha Kuhnley: Right.

Tim Moore: Yeah, I guess we were just erased.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, so we didn’t exist in the first place.

Dr. Reagan: Okay, we are going to have to move quickly. Now what is the second one you were going to mention?

Marsha Kuhnley: The second one that I would like to talk about is based off this snapture that the media popularized. If you have seen the last Avengers movies, the man bad guy in the Avengers Thanos when he became all powerful he snapped his fingers and billions of people across the planet just disappeared. And his reasoning for gaining all of his powers so he could do that was to depopulate the planet, or just the whole universe because it couldn’t sustain all the people anymore. Now, that particular explanation fits right in with the United Nations agenda, so I think that one will be quite popular after the Rapture.

Tim Moore: Well, if you don’t look for plain sense, you end up with nonsense, and a lot of people have rejected the plain sense of scripture, and we have already ended up trending toward nonsense. And that is what you are describing with some of those explanations.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Well, Marsha, I tell you I appreciate your eloquence in responding to these questions.

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, thanks.

Dr. Reagan: And folks, what we are going to do is we are going to take a break now, and when we come back we are gong to bombard her with the counter arguments that people present to the Pretribulation Rapture, because the Pretribulation Rapture is under greater attack today then ever before. And the reason it gives hope to Christians, and Satan doesn’t want any of us to have any hope.

Part 2

Tim Moore: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Marsha Kuhnley, the author of the excellent book about the Rapture called, “Rapture 911.” Marsha, we want to get your responses to some of the most common criticisms about the Rapture. And so, first of all I’d like to know how would you respond to people who say that the Rapture is not even in the Bible, that word itself is not even contained in scripture.

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. It’s there. It’s just not in most English translations of the Bible. So, it is the phrase caught up in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 that we are interested in. If we go back to the original Greek translation it is the word, “harpazo” and that particular word in the Latin Vulgate translations is “rapiemur,” “rapio,” “rapturo” or other derivatives of that word.

Dr. Reagan: Which is the only Bible used in western civilization for almost 1,200 years.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, and that is where we get the word Rapture from.

Dr. Reagan: The word doesn’t have to be English for it to be a biblical word.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. Exactly.

Tim Moore: No, not at all. So, how do you suggest, and actually obviously we believe that the Rapture will happen prior to the Tribulation, so a Pretribulation Rapture. What is the evidence for that? We’ve already touched on that but how would you expand upon that?

Marsha Kuhnley: Well, one of the things that we can look at is Daniel chapter 9. So, in Daniel chapter 9 he tells us that we essentially have to have a good understanding of the entire biblical timeline for us to understand that the Rapture is a Pretribulation event. And in Daniel chapter 9 he introduces us to the concept, there is a difference between the Church Age and the Jewish nation. And he speaks of this seventy-weeks of years in Daniel chapter 9 where all of these events have to be fulfilled before Jesus can come, at His Second Coming. Now, at Jesus’ Second Coming 69 weeks of years were fulfilled, and then the time stopped for the Jewish nation.

Dr. Reagan: Time out.

Tim Moore: Yeah.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes. Yes. And that’s essentially when the time started for the Church Age. Now, the Church Age ends when Jesus comes at the Rapture. And then the time starts again for the Jewish nation when the Antichrist signs that peace treaty with Israel, and then they finish that last seven years. Now, Daniel also talks to us in Daniel chapter 12 that there are certain events, and signs, and things that we can be looking for, for the Tribulation starting, for the middle of the Tribulation, and the abomination that happens in the Temple, and when Jesus returns at His Second Coming. Daniel actually tells us that we can calculate the exact day that Jesus is going to come at His Second Coming based on when that peace treaty gets signed, it is exactly seven years later. Now, the reason that is significant is because the Bible tells us the Rapture is an imminent event, that it could happen at literally at any time. There isn’t any sign or any event that has to happen before the Rapture happens.

Dr. Reagan: The Second Coming is not an imminent event.

Tim Moore: No.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly, the Tribulation is not imminent. The middle of the Tribulation, the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns, all of those dates we are going to know and be able to tell.

Tim Moore: There are many signs that actually tell us that we are in the Tribulation.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Tim Moore: That the Antichrist has manifest himself.

Dr. Reagan: The Temple is rebuilt.

Tim Moore: The Temple being rebuilt, all of these things that point to the timing of Jesus’ coming back in glory. But His coming for the Church, what we call the Rapture, there is no sign leading up to that.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Tim Moore: Very good.

Dr. Reagan: Plus, we are never told to watch for the coming of the Antichrist, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Tim Moore: Always.

Dr. Reagan: The only people who are told to watch for the Antichrist are the Jewish people. And they are told that when he appears get out of Jerusalem.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, that’s right.

Dr. Reagan: But the Church, no, because we are waiting for Jesus Christ. Well, another argument against the Pretribulation Rapture is the concept that it is too new to be true. It was developed in 1820 with a guy named John Darby, and that is just too late in history. It is just too new to be true.

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. This one actually doesn’t really make much sense to me. It’s almost like they are implying that the popularity of a biblical teaching, or scripture with the early church is what makes it true today.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah.

Marsha Kuhnley: And that just seems really ridiculous. We know, based on the Bible, that Jesus talked about the Rapture in John 14, and Matthew 24. The Apostle Paul talked about it in 1 Thessalonians 4, 2 Thessalonians 2, 1 Corinthians 15. John gives us a glimpse of the Rapture in Revelation chapter 4. And then we’ve got other Bible scholars, experts in Bible prophecy that have written about this particular question. Mark Hitchcock talks about it. And Dave, you even talk about it in your latest book, “Rapture: Fact or Fiction?” as well.

Dr. Reagan: Yeah, the interesting thing about that argument is that when Martin Luther said, “We’ve got to get back to the Bible because salvation is not by works.”

Tim Moore: It’s by grace alone.

Dr. Reagan: Which the Catholic Church was teaching, but it was by grace through faith. The Catholic Church confronted him and said, “That’s too new to be true.”

Tim Moore: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: Because no popes and no church fathers believed in it. He said, “Well, what church fathers are you talking about?” He said, “Peter, Paul, John, Jesus they all believed in it.”

Tim Moore: Exactly right. Fantastic example.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Reagan: So, we can’t test a doctrine by when it developed. We have to test it by the scripture.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah.

Dr. Reagan: And the scripture say that a lot of prophecy are not going to be understood until the time comes for them to be understood.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Dr. Reagan: I mean this is so, Daniel said, “I don’t understand these prophecies.” The Lord said, “It is not for you to understand them, it is for you to write them.”

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Tim Moore: Well, Dave mentioned the Antichrist. One of the other criticism that is leveled against all of us who look forward to the Lord’s soon return, to a Pretribulation Rapture, they’ll say, “Well you all are just escapists. You’re trying to avoid the Antichrist. You are trying to avoid the Tribulation period because you are cowards, or you are just afraid. And so, you are just wanting to escape.” And not putting any stock into what the Word itself says, but how would you counter that argument?

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure, I would say, “Don’t be deceived by that.” That’s the spirit of Satan talking. He likes to mock Gods’ truth, call people names, and he likes to steal the hope we have of future promises. There is a crown of righteousness that awaits all believers who are looking forward to Jesus returning at the Rapture, right?

Dr. Reagan: Yes.

Tim Moore: Yes, there is.

Marsha Kuhnley: Don’t let Satan steal your crown.

Tim Moore: Amen.

Marsha Kuhnley: Let people call you whatever they want. Continue trusting in one of the coolest promises that we have in the Bible and look forward to Jesus coming. I know I am.

Dr. Reagan: The subtitle of your book is “What to Do if You Are Left Behind.”

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: What do you have to say in this book to people who might be left behind.

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure, so I have a lot of information about what happened. Why millions of people disappeared? Of course, they are going to learn about why there is still hope for them, and how they can be saved. I teach them all about the Bible; what it is, who wrote it?

Tim Moore: How to read it.

Marsha Kuhnley: How to read it, yes, that’s really key. And they are going to learn all about why they can trust the Bible. There are a ton of examples of fulfilled Bible prophecies in here, so they can get that good foundation. I also talk about lies that are going to be prevalent after the Rapture, so they won’t be deceived. There is content in here to help them cope with feelings they are going to be struggling with, like fear, grief, and shame.

Dr. Reagan: And you also warn them what is ahead of them, don’t you?

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. Exactly, there are a lot of chapters that cover a timeline of future events. And I end it with a nice checklist of what to do.

Tim Moore: I appreciate the fact, really, and even your subtitle suggests that this book is not written just for folks today, or people who are already Christians, and already believe the things that you do. But really your book is focused on those who are left behind, who don’t understand why a lot of their friends and perhaps even relatives have disappeared, and the lies that are being perpetrated. And so, this becomes a resource for someone to turn to, to have understanding after the Rapture. And let’s face it, obviously if a person can gain understanding after the Rapture, our hope is that many will gain understanding before the Rapture and put their faith in Jesus Christ today, so that they can be snatched away with the rest of the body of Christ and not have to go through the Tribulation. That is really our hope, and our prayer today.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Dr. Reagan: Marsha, you published this book in November of 2019, I believe it was.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Dr. Reagan: And I don’t know how I got a copy. I don’t know if you sent it to me or what, but I got a copy. And it is a big book. And I started reading and I couldn’t put it down. I thought it was very, very well written.

Marsha Kuhnley: Thank you.

Dr. Reagan: And I just couldn’t believe that this was the first book to be written by somebody in the field of Bible prophecy. You’ve really been trying to make up for lost time since you became a Christian at age 30. But I did make a suggestion to you. I told you that people aren’t readers anymore, and it is very few people who just get in and read a book, especially this size. And I suggested that maybe you might put out a smaller edition. What happened?

Marsha Kuhnley: Right. Right, so, you are right, Dave, we had a conversation several months ago. You actually shared a thought with me that folks that are left behind after the Rapture, you don’t believe are going to have time to do in depth Bible study. Right? So, this book might be a little challenging for somebody left behind. And you suggested I make a little pocket edition. I thought that was a really great idea. It made sense to me. So, thanks, for the great suggestion.

Dr. Reagan: Well, I really feel strongly about that. And I tell people quite often when I am at churches I say, “Open your Bible and right at the front of it put the plain of salvation.” Because people don’t have time during the Tribulation to read the whole Bible. They are going to be hunted down. So, have it right there where they can go to the verses, and see what are the important things they need to know; that they are a sinner, that they can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ. So, yeah, I really appreciate. We are always getting letters and messages, and e-mails saying, “My children are not believers and if the Rapture occurs they are going to be left behind. What can I leave them?”

Marsha Kuhnley: There you go.

Dr. Reagan: There you go.

Tim Moore: Well, obviously the other key is while we want to leave resources, obviously we have a wealth of resources. Our internet evangelism will be there until the Antichrist and others take sites like that down. But we have resources to leave behind. But again, our goal is not to just to leave things for people who are left behind.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.

Tim Moore: We want folks to share the message of the Gospel today so that there loved ones are not left behind. We want people’s friends and neighbors to know about Jesus Christ and join us in the Rapture when He comes to snatch us away and take us to Himself.

Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.

Dr. Reagan: Marsha, how about just looking directly into the camera in front of you and telling our audience what they must do to be prepared for the Rapture.

Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure. So that’s really easy. To be prepared for the Rapture all you have to do is put your faith in Jesus Christ. You just have to believe that Jesus is who He is says He is, He’s the Son of God. And that He left Heaven, came down to earth and died for your sins.

Dr. Reagan: You mean I don’t need to go out and do a bunch of good works?

Marsha Kuhnley: No, no you don’t have to do a bunch of good works.

Dr. Reagan: Well, what if I’ve committed some really terrible sins?

Marsha Kuhnley: It doesn’t matter, Jesus died for everyone, and for every single sin.

Dr. Reagan: But that seems so easy. It seems so free. I guess it’s called grace.

Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, it is.

Dr. Reagan: Okay.

Closing

Tim Moore: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Marsha Kuhnley, the author of a book called, “Rapture 911: What To Do If You Are Left Behind.” Marsha tell us how people can get a copy of your excellent book.

Marsha Kuhnley: Sure, please go to rapture911.com for more information.

Dr. Reagan: Well, I want to thank you again for being our very special guest and driving all the way here from Albuquerque to be with us in the Dallas area. And keep up the good writing, and keep in touch with us, okay.

Marsha Kuhnley: Will do.

Dr. Reagan: For sure. Well, folks that is our program for today. I hope it has been a blessing to you and I hope that the Lord willing you will be back with us next week. Until then this is Tim Moore, speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”

End of Program