The Book of Revelation: Chapters 4-5

Part 1

Nathan Jones: Well, I just emphasized that from beginning to end Revelation is the revelation or unveiling of Jesus Christ Himself given to his bond servants, that’s us, to show the things which must soon take place. That gives the book a timeless significance to all who have accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord. And it affirms that in the grand scheme of things, the final chapter of human history is being written right before our eyes. Jesus is coming soon!

David Bowen: And I’ll also point out that Revelation is full of promises to Christians. The opening verses proclaim that Jesus loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, and that He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father. You know, chapters two and three, we addressed that last week, and addressed the 14 promises to overcomers, those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Tim Moore: And I get excited just thinking about those promises and anticipating the Lord’s return. But I think we need to clarify upfront what John referred to as overcomers, as those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. There is much more involved than just intellectual assent to Jesus Christ as Messiah. As a matter of fact, Satan knows that Jesus is the Son of God.

Pontius Pilot referred to Jesus as the Christ, and the centurion at the cross testified, “Surely this was the Son of God.” Eventually every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. But believing faith permeates our heart, our mind, and our soul, and transforms us by the power of the Holy Spirit. So what do you guys think? How do we jump into this next chapter about the things which are to take place after these things?

David Bowen: Well, the future of our world, what’s going to take place. I mean, chapters 4 to 22 is yet to come for all of us, so we can get excited about knowing what God’s saying is going to happen next. Because I look around and I don’t know what hope we can have sometimes.

Tim Moore: You’ve got to wonder. And actually it’s not even opinion on our part, we’re citing verse one of chapter four, which tells us then he looked and the voice says, “Come up here, and I will show you the things which must take place after these things.” So, going back to our outline, Nathan, of chapter one, verse 19, we know there’s been a transition as we begin in chapter four.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, I mean, chapter one is the island of Patmos. That’s where John had been exiled. That’s where Jesus arrives in all His glory and says, “Hey, I’ve got a letter that you need to write to these seven churches.” Chapters two and three, that the things that are, are the seven churches. So, the letter addresses each of the seven churches. But now we’re in the third phase, like Dave says from chapter four, all the way to the end, it’s the future.

Tim Moore: It’s the future.

David Bowen: Key words, we open up chapter four after this.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

David Bowen: What is this? There’s got to be some kind of global thing that happens. And could it be the Rapture?

Tim Moore: It certainly could. I would also say in chapters two and three that we focused on last week, we’re talking about letters to churches, we’re talking about its application to churches throughout the Church Age. We’re talking about even its application to Christians. So, this is a Church Age application. But then in chapter four, with this transitioned with the things which will take place after these things, it’s very telling that John sees a door open, a voice, which, as he describes the person calling him, says, “Come up here,” and immediately John is translated into heaven. So this is almost a picture of what?

David Bowen: Of the throne room of God.

Tim Moore: But the transition is a picture of the Rapture itself.

David Bowen: Oh, yes.

Tim Moore: John is essentially raptured here at the very beginning of chapter four to be able to see all the things that take place after what we anticipate as the Rapture.

Nathan Jones: And you can go to Isaiah, you can go to Ezekiel, you go to Paul, and Paul refers to somebody else. Other people have been taken to the throne room of God. But you got to remember that man and God are separate. So we still cannot see the face of God and live as Moses learned, you can see the back, and I believe that actually was the back of Christ. But what we’ve got here now is the actual throne of God. The whole purpose of human history is to get us back into the Garden of Eden, where we had perfect fellowship with God. There was no sin that separated us. We walked and talked and had fellowship with God. And all of human history is to get us to chapters 21 and 22, where we can see the Father we can have fellowship not just through the Son and the Holy Spirit, but the Father. But here that we’ve got John now is translated to the throne. And although he can’t see the One on the throne, there’s the energy and there’s the emerald rainbow and all the glory of God and the angels and all that around Him, what he sees in front of that throne is quite an interesting picture.

Tim Moore: Yeah, he sees a bunch of elders and creatures that are worshiping the Father who is on the throne as he is describing the Ancient of Days right there.

David Bowen: Right. And it’s fascinating to me that you have Isaiah 700 years before Christ. You have Ezekiel 500 years before Christ. But they see the same thing that John sees.

Nathan Jones: Yes.

David Bowen: So, as we get this picture of the throne of God, we see the same picture, described a little bit differently, but we see the same picture.

Nathan Jones: But the Jewish people too, we used to see the throne room of God in miniature, in scale, in the Tabernacle, in the Temples, because the dimensions of the heaven, heavenly throne room are in tiny in the tabernacle, a little bigger in the temple, in the millennial temple, which Jesus describes in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 is 40 miles squared. We’ve got the New Jerusalem that comes down, the throne of God is in the center, and that’s 1500 miles cubed. So, we get this picture, every time you study the Tabernacle or the Temple, you’re getting an idea of the dimensions of the throne of God. and who’s in the holy of holies? The Father seated on the mercy seat with the angels on both sides.

David Bowen: Right.

Tim Moore: There’s one difference in John’s vision that he records here in Revelation 4 and even some of those previous visions. Isaiah, when he was ushered into the throne room of God, his immediate response was, “Woe, am I for I am ruined because I’m a man of unclean lips. I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of host, Yahweh.” John doesn’t have that reaction. Why doesn’t John’s sense woe is me? What’s different? What has happened in history at this point that John doesn’t have to have a sense of woe or, you know, being undone, even as he is ushered into the throne room of God.

Nathan Jones: He’s saved, the blood of Jesus Christ. The sacrifice, the final sacrifice was made. I’ve always wondered if we could travel back in time, do time travel, and we showed up during the time of the Temple we’re Gentiles were not cleansed. Would we be allowed in the temple in the holy of holies without the Lord destroying us? Because you weren’t allowed to walk into the holy of holies, it was a death sentence. Unless you were the High Priest. But now that Jesus Christ has died on the cross, His blood covers our sins. We can approach the Father. John could step before the Father reconciled to Him and not die.

Tim Moore: I think that is a major point for us to really grab a hold of, because the same, I guess, blessing that John has to not feel undone, woe, there is no condemnation for John. Is the same promise to us having put our faith in Jesus Christ, having become an overcomer, because through our faith in Christ we can step into the throne room of God. If the Lord calls me home tonight, I’m not worried about having to stand before Him because I am cleansed by the blood of Christ, and I’ll have the same kind of experience John did to be able to go without any sense of dread. I think there will still be absolute humility, overwhelming awe, but not the woe and the undone.

David Bowen: So, as we begin this time, what’s yet to come, chapters 4 to 22, what you’re telling me is we have a picture of hope.

Tim Moore: Oh, man.

David Bowen: Because we’re going to need to find hope in these next few chapters as we take these on.

Tim Moore: Well, okay, so let’s turn to a picture of hope and some degree of speculation. Nathan, I know you’ve written about some of what John sees there in the throne room. It says that before him are the seven lamps, which are the seven spirits of God, so we know the Holy Spirit is there. He describes four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. He describes the creatures themselves like a lion. The second like a calf. The third like with a face, like a man. The fourth creature was like a flying eagle. So, I’ve always thought that those are descriptive and representative of the gospels themselves, hearkening to the royal lion, harkening to the calf or the subjective servant kind of aspect of Christ, hearkening to the face of a man that being Jesus as a man in full humanity. And then John, the Gospel writer has high and lofty type of descriptions in his gospel. But these four living creatures, which are mysterious in a sense, but wonderful. And then this John describes there’s 24 folks gathered around the throne of God. Who are these people?

Nathan Jones: Well, again, our guiding force is the golden rule of interpretation, if the plain sense makes sense, look for no other sense lest you end up in nonsense. So when I read about the seraphim the four living creatures, I take it as actual creatures, actual types of angels.

Tim Moore: Amen.

Nathan Jones: And we need to understand that angels aren’t all a bunch of blond, curly haired, white dudes with togas and wings, there’s so many different varieties. So the Seraphim are a special class, that stand before the throne of God in worship. There’s a cherubim who have four faces each and four wings, and they carry the throne of God, which is actually a chariot. It moves. And then you have the 24 elders. So when I was writing this book, “The Mighty Angels of Revelation.”

Tim Moore: I was going to say if only if there was a book about that.

David Bowen: Yes.

Nathan Jones: If only there was a book. But it’s a study of the Book of Revelation. And so the question was, are the 24 elders seated on the thrones that circle the throne of God are they angels? Well, it got to a point here, let me just quick read this. Other rewards will be given in nature. These are the rewards given to the saints, such as special robes that demonstrate purity and holiness, which are the righteous act of the saints. The Bible describes five different crowns and in the Greek stephanos, which will be based on meritorious spiritual achievement. And they’re not the diadem worn by Christ.

Tim Moore: So, the diadem the crown.

Nathan Jones: Right. So, we’ve got the 24 elders in white robes wearing stephanos, folks, I don’t think this is the 12 patriarchs or the 12 apostles, I think that when Jesus Christ promised that we will rule and reign with Him and sit on the thrones that these 24 thrones are a rotation where we each take a turn sitting on the throne at some point. Those 24 elders are us.

Tim Moore: Wow.

David Bowen: Yeah. You did an amazing job with that book, and I appreciate you doing that.

Nathan Jones: Praise the Lord.

Nathan Jones: Tell us about your book. How would you interpret it?

David Bowen: What’s interesting, though, is that we don’t know who these elders are. We don’t know if they’re the 12 apostles, and we don’t know if that the 12 tribes, we don’t know if they’re us rotating. So I don’t focus on who they are.

Nathan Jones: Okay.

David Bowen: I like to focus on what they did.

Nathan Jones: That’s more important.

David Bowen: So, and what they did, we’re told they worshiped Him and then they laid their crowns before the throne and said, “You are worthy.”

Tim Moore: Oh, boy.

David Bowen: They worshiped Him. Oh, the holy goosebumps just saying that. “You are worthy.”

Nathan Jones: And people will write into our ministry and say, “Well, you know, what’s the point of getting these crowns that are basically the epitome of your life’s work and giving it to the Lord?” Well, we put them back on. I mean, that’s what crowns are for. But to think that your life work is embodied in a living symbol that you can place before the feet of Christ, and think about, it kind of to me, solidifies what our work is in this life. Because some people have just this tiny little circlet, some old lady who worked in the church and filled the communion cup she might be staggering around with this giant crown. But either way, our life’s work matters because it becomes an act of worship for eternity.

Tim Moore: I’ve always said I want the crown of righteousness, which Paul says is promised not only to him, but all who have looked forward to the Lord’s appearing, who are looking for His Second Coming and His glorious return, and even His return for us at the Rapture. And I want that crown because when they say, “All right, folks, get ready, we’re going to cast our crowns.” I don’t want to be empty handed or empty headed. I want to have a crown to cast before Christ. And the beautiful thing about even the crown of righteousness, it’s not a crown reflecting my righteousness.

David Bowen: Correct.

Tim Moore: It is a crown of righteousness credited to me by Him who is righteous. I get to wear the crown, but really it is all due to Him. He gets the praise and therefore I get to throw it to Him. I actually appreciate your insights, Nathan, on who these elders and other figures in Revelation could be. But Dave, you make a great point. We could play a parlor game with who is this? Who is that? Who’s the Antichrist? At some point we need to say, cut through all the noise in a sense, what do they do? They worship. And I don’t have to wait till I’m in Heaven. Or it’s my turn to be on a throne, I can be worshiping right now.

David Bowen: Right.

Tim Moore: And in spirit and in truth. And in just as you said, He is worthy. Boy, my heart just lept with a moment of praise You Lord, You are worthy. And so we don’t have to wait to Heaven to be modeling that kind of worship.

Nathan Jones: Well, this is, amidst all this worship scene, which is so incredible, John must have been bowled over. He had just seen Jesus Christ in all His glory show up to him. And then he’s looking around and Jesus is gone. Where is He? And all of a sudden, this bloody little sacrifice lamb shows up.

Tim Moore: Ah, we haven’t got there yet because there’s a crisis before the bloody sacrificial lamb shows up.

Nathan Jones: Yeah, because He’s the answer to the crisis.

Tim Moore: Okay, so the crisis. Let’s set up the crisis.

Nathan Jones: Okay.

Tim Moore: Now before we even move on to the very end of chapter 4, verse 11, “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.” That includes us and every living thing. But in chapter five, there is a crisis because John notices that He who sits on the throne is holding a scroll and it’s sealed seven times. You can imagine in ancient times they would drop a wax on a valuable document and then they would seal it. And if the seal was broken, you know, the document had been opened by someone unauthorized. This has seven seals on it, and yet they look and look and no one is found worthy to open the scroll or the book that has been sealed. And there’s a great sense of crisis. John says he just feels terrible. He begins to weep because no one is found.

Nathan Jones: And then verse four, I love it, “Then I was crying greatly, John, because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. And then one of the elders said to me, ‘Stop crying.’” You don’t have to cry.

Tim Moore: “Weep no more; behold, the Lion from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome,” here He is again overcomer, “as to open the book and its seven seals.” So you’re expecting, alright, where’s the lion? And John turns around and sees the bloody lamb.

David Bowen: Yeah.

Tim Moore: Again, a beautiful picture of our Lord.

David Bowen: And people say, you know, we’ve got to worship Jesus and He’s worthy. And I go, He is worthy. But why? And they don’t understand it goes back to this, you know, that scroll that has to be opened. What is that scroll? What does it represent?

Nathan Jones: The title deed to the earth.

David Bowen: It is the deed to the earth, you know, God has it all. The Father hands it to the Son and He’s the only one. That’s why He’s worthy because He’s the one that will take away pain, sickness, death, Satan. He will when we get to this point and the judgment comes, all that goes away, and He’s the only one worthy to do that.

Nathan Jones: That would make Satan then a squatter.

David Bowen: Yes.

Nathan Jones: As we think about it, if the title deed is God’s, Jesus earned it, then it became humanity’s humanity gave it up to Satan. Jesus won it back on the cross. He just we’re waiting for Him come claim it as we read in chapter 4 and 5 here. Then Satan is not a squatter, but he’s a false owner of it. He’s the guy—

David Bowen: He’s a loser.

Nathan Jones: He’s a renter, he’s a usurper, that’s the word I was looking for.

Tim Moore: He has usurped. But even then, and somehow this is beyond my mortal comprehension, and I’ve thought about this a lot and I still can’t understand it, God is sovereign, and yet He allows Satan to have authority right now as the prince of the powers of the earth and under the earth. And so, it is in the perfect will of God to allow Satan to even reign on the earth. It is the perfect will of God to let sin manifest. People say: Why is there pain? Why is there suffering? I don’t know. I can just tell you God is sovereign, and yet He allows these things because in the fullness of time He will get even more glory, and He will manifest his glory.

You know, there was a time when people thought that the man born blind was blind because either he sinned or his parents sinned. And Jesus said, “No, you misunderstand. He has lived his life to this moment blind, because the glory of God is about to be manifest.” And boy, what a tremendous demonstration of Jesus’ power and of God’s glory for Him to be healed at that moment. Sometimes we think: Why am I suffering? Why is Satan raging? Just wait. Because in the fullness of time, God’s glory will be demonstrated and we’ll have even more reason to praise Him. Sometimes our perspective is too short.

David Bowen: Well, it’s John being the writer of this book wrote the gospel as well. And in the gospel he has the seven I am statements. I am the Way. I am the Light. Nathan, it goes back to what you were saying, back to the tabernacle, all the elements in the tabernacle. I am the Bread. I am the Light. Everything back there pointed to Jesus. Well when it points to Jesus what does it point to? It points to this.

Nathan Jones: Yeah.

David Bowen: It points this.

Nathan Jones: Yeah. And the throne room of God.

David Bowen: Yeah.

Nathan Jones: I love it here that Jesus is explained as the lamb, it says He has seven horns and seven eyes. And so your first thought is: What? A seven horns, seven eyes lamb. But like all things symbols, the Book of Revelation explains right in the next passage, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth, the seven fold Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

David Bowen: Right.

Tim Moore: You know, the rest of chapter 5, and we’re going to focus on this today, obviously is just repeated praise songs, a new song of, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.” “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” Again later, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” And then once more, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb,” the Father and the Son, “be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

It makes your heart thrill to imagine this is going to be us someday witnessing this kind of worship forever and ever and participating in this kind of worship. I just want to worship Him even right now.

Nathan Jones: And if this is the future and John is being brought to the point where Jesus is about to take the seven seals, He’s going to open the seals, which will be our next section where we get to the sixth seal, seventh seal judgment, excuse me, is the fact that the Jesus here is opening it and the power and the glory is present there. And if the Church is raptured, that means we’re there, too.

David Bowen: Absolutely.

Nathan Jones: We might actually be here to see that.

David Bowen: I think we will be.

Tim Moore: In verse 11 how many people that say is gathered there around the throne?

Nathan Jones: That’s a good point.

David Bowen: Right.

Nathan Jones: Myriads or myriads.

Tim Moore: And thousands of thousands. I mean, millions and millions. There’s no way that we can know how many. God knows. And I think that’s one of the reasons He’s delaying His coming. As eager as I am for Him to come on down Lord, come on. He’s waiting for that number to be filled.

David Bowen: Well, you said a new song, and you kind of blew over that very quickly. There is a new song. What’s the new song? It’s the song of redemption. The first song was creation. The second redemption.

Nathan Jones: Good point.

David Bowen: And Him being a lamb, that’s what it is, the lamb represents redemption. The lion is judgment, but the lamb is redemption. The whole thing comes around redemption because we are redeemed, we are overcomers, we get to experience that and worship that.

Nathan Jones: And that’s what the Church sees. The lion is what they’ll see at the end of the Tribulation.

David Bowen: Yes.

Nathan Jones: Interesting.

David Bowen: Yes.

Tim Moore: Wow. Well, we’ve kind of come full circle today from John’s translation into Heaven. We’ve seen the crisis that ensued when no one was found worthy to open the scroll that was in God, the Father’s hand. And then through John’s powerful testimony, we’ve witnessed Jesus Christ enter the scene, called out as the Lion of tribe of Judah, but then described as the bloody lamb that was slain. And He is able, He is worthy to take up the scroll. And then all the saints, and all the angels, and all the creatures gathered around the throne burst out in worship. So, we end really where we begin with Jesus Christ, who began this entire unveiling, this revelation. And He, to this day, is the voice who calls His sheep and is the Lamb and the Lion. Boy, that sounds like a good name for a ministry. He is the Lamb and the Lion who is worthy to be praised.

Nathan Jones: And this is, if you think of all of humanity in eras are like crops. You have a harvest season. You harvest you throw the tares away. And so what we’re up to this point is the Old Testament Saints and the Church Age saints harvest is done. We’re before the Lord. We are at that garden scene again. We have that perfect fellowship. We’re there with the Father. But leading into starting the next chapter, there’s another crop that needs to be done, and that’s the Tribulation. And the Bible says the Tribulation Saints, those who come out of the Tribulation will be more numerous than from every tribe, tongue, language and people. And then after that you’ve got the Millennial Kingdom and that next crop to bring people, so that the fulfillment of all the crops of humanity, if I can say that, not sound like a matrix reference as all the crops of humanity will be before the Lord and Heaven will be filled with people who actually want to be with God forever. And we’ll live in perfect harmony with our Father. So, this is only the middle of the story.

David Bowen: Wow. I think when you look at this is not hard because all you need to get away from this is that all we need to do is worship.

Tim Moore: Well, you said earlier, Dave, that some of these passages give us hope. And right as we’re about to turn our attention to some of the horror that’s going to befall the earth, I think chapters 4 and 5 is a marker, a stake driven down, if you will, that there is hope. That we look forward to the Rapture just like John was translated. We look forward to being ushered into the throne room of God. And whether that takes place when you guys go with me and we all go together and all y’all who have put your faith in Christ are raptured in the twinkling of an eye, or whether, just like John, I go by myself because I precede you in death, I am ushered into the presence of Christ and I get to begin worshiping right then. You know, to live is Christ, but to die is gain. And if I gain this, what would I have to fear? There is only hope.

David Bowen: Do we live life with an earthly perspective or with a heavenly perspective? And what you just explained is a heavenly perspective.

Nathan Jones: And it substantiates John 14:6 where Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father except by Me.” So here you’ve got all of heaven. The biggest question ever: Who is worthy to open the seal? There is only one entity in all of creation. It’s not Confucius. It’s not Muhammad. It’s not Buddha. It’s not ourselves. Only Jesus Christ can provide salvation. So, to me, this solidifies the fact that Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life.

Tim Moore: He certainly is. Well, you know what? Even as we look forward to getting into the rest of Revelation, I think it’s important that we have started as John does, by focusing first and foremost on Jesus Christ and on taking time just to worship Him in our conversation. We’re going to do a little bit of that in just a moment. But it says here, Nathan, that the four living creatures in verse 14 of chapter 5 kept saying, “Amen, Amen.” I agree. I agree. It is true. And the elders, whoever they are, but the elders fell down and worshiped.” How can we right now have that kind of heart attitude? And how can our viewers become a part of this great throng who’s going to fall down and worship the risen Lord?

Nathan Jones: Well, an overcomer is someone who’s put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their savior. Jesus is worthy because the perfect God came as a man and died on the cross for our sins, a perfect sacrifice so that we don’t need to sacrifice, or work ever again, because Jesus Christ did all the work on the cross, and He beat death by resurrecting from the dead. And by beating death He made that victory our victory as well. And Jesus is calling all of us to put our faith and trust in Him, to repent of our sins and to reach out in faith. And when we do, Jesus promise He will forgive us our sins, He will cleanse us of all the guilt that we have, and we will inherit eternal life with Him.

Tim Moore: You know, it is very telling that from the beginning of chapter 4 until chapter 19, there’s no more mention of the Church. Because as we were about to unveil and Jesus Christ unveils the horrors that are going to befall the earth, we the Church, Christians right now, do not have to be fearful because I don’t believe we’re going to be here. We’re going to talk more about that next week. But we get to be ushered into the presence of God, into the place Jesus has prepared for us, and then we will reappear on the scene in chapter 19 when we get to come back with the Lord at the glorious Second Coming.

David Bowen: Amen.

Tim Moore: Amen.

David Bowen: Amen.

Closing

Tim Moore: I look forward to worshiping Jesus face to face. But my anticipation of Him coming for me and delivering me from this sin worry world before He pours out His wrath is enough to make me shout Hallelujah, a joyful Hebrew word that simply means Praise God.

To that end, have you ever considered that most of what we know about worship in Heaven is from the book of Revelation? John records numerous songs and expressions of praise. From the cries of the four living creatures before the throne of God in Chapter 4 to the fourfold Hallelujah in Chapter 19, Revelation resounds with praise for God.

The Song of Moses and the Lamb in Chapter 15 captures the glory God is due from all the earth: “Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For all the nations will come and worship before You, for Your righteous acts have been revealed.”

Christian artists try to reflect the wonderful worship recorded in Revelation. Songwriter Jennie Lee Riddle was inspired to take words directly from Revelation and turn them into a beautiful song of praise that begins, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain—Holy, holy is He. Sing a new song to Him who sits on heaven’s mercy seat.” Like the four living creatures, her song is full of worship for “the Lord God Almighty—the King of kings, who was and is and is to come!”

Satan would like to convince the world that Jesus is not coming back, or that He is not worthy. But three times in Revelation 4 and 5 alone, heaven reverberates with praise songs declaring that He is worthy. The myriads of angels and living creatures and elders gathered around the throne echo our prayer of praise today: “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

Truly He is worthy.

Godspeed.

End of Program